S4 Ep12: Let’s Talk About A Personal Brand Journey with Michael Stelzner
Some brand journeys are worth taking a look at to see what we can take away from them to build our own brands. And no one is a better example of that than this week’s guest, Michael Stelzner. In today’s episode, Mike is going to walk us through his brand journey from being the white paper guy to the social media guy and into his newest mission. So many great lessons to be learned!
Some brand journeys are worth taking a look at to see what we can take away from them to build our own brands. And no one is a better example of that than this week’s guest, Michael Stelzner.
He is the reason that many people have gotten into social media marketing as he is the ringleader behind all of the education that Social Media Examiner brings! However, his personal brand started well before he stepped into the social media industry.
In today’s episode, Mike is going to walk us through his brand journey from being “the white paper guy” to “the social media guy” and into his newest mission. So many great lessons to be learned!
Tune in as we talk about:
[00:00] Welcome Michael Stelzner
[04:28] How white papers launched Mike Stelzner's personal brand
[10:25] How did Mike pivot from being "the white paper guy" to social media?
[14:30] How did Mike build up his contacts in an industry he was relatively new to?
[16:45] How did Social Media Examiner Start?
[18:47] How did Mike move people from online content to an in-person conference?
[22:42] How does Mike balance three brands?
[25:37] How does Mike find up-and-coming industry voices?
[29:33] What should you do if you are asked to be on stage?
[30:25] What characteristic does Mike think makes someone successful?
[32:00] What is Mike's current mission?
[34:11] How to connect with Mike
Contact Michael Stelzner
Website: Social Media Examiner
Twitter/X: Michael Stelzner
Facebook: Michael Stelzner
Linkedin: Michael Stelzner
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Christine Gritmon:
Hello, I'm Christine Gritmon, and this is Let's Talk About Brand, my weekly show where I interview a guest expert every single week about a different element of personal branding. Please make sure that you subscribe on your podcast player of choice and leave a review if you like it and come back every single week where we'll be interviewing fantastic guest experts.
Today's guest expert is actually someone whose work really got me into the social media industry. Mike Stelzner is the founder and CEO of Social Media Examiner, which also runs the Social Media Marketing World event.
And so really when I first started getting into social media, it was very self taught, you couldn't study social media in school when I went to school. It didn't exist. So when I got into it, I really said, you know what? I want to geek out on this. I want to learn all that I can, and I want to find out who the right people are to learn from.
So Social Media Examiner was there for that purpose. They get the best experts to provide the best information on the best topics. Lots and lots of friends of mine now have written for Social Media Examiner. Of course, I didn't know them yet. And when I went to social media marketing world for the first time in 2017, it just blew my mind wide open.
I still use things every single day in my work that I learned at that very first event and a lot of the most valuable relationships. that I have in my industry, a lot of which have turned into very close friendships, can be traced back to people I met at Social Media Marketing World. So I'm very excited for today's conversation.
Mike Stelzner himself, he's very clearly the man running the show. He hosts his own podcast, the Social Media Marketing Podcast, of course, which informs Social Media Examiner content. He always opens up the Social Media Marketing World event. He's very, very actively present in his business.
So today we're going to talk about how he became the Mike Stelzner. It's not the way you might think. There's actually a pre story that he's going to get into. So his own personal brand, how he leveraged that to build Social Media Examiner and Social Media Marketing World. And the building of those properties also were helped out by leveraging the personal brands of experts in the social media marketing field. So we'll talk about that.
And a lot of people's careers have greatly been like launched or accelerated as personal brands by appearing on Social Media Examiner and at Social Media Marketing World. So we're also going to hear from Mike, a man who has seen a lot of personal brands grow over the years about some tips for growing your personal brand.
What's going to do it for you, how to make the most of opportunities that you get, and really what goes into a strong personal brand.
All right. So without any further ado, let's bring him on. Mike Stelzner, come on down.
Michael Stelzner:
Hey, I wasn't expecting that applause. Great to be on the show.
Christine Gritmon:
We like making our guest stars feel like rock stars here on Let's Talk About Brand. And you know all about that because actually one of the big things about Social Media Examiner and especially social media marketing world, both brands that you have created and that your personal brand has almost become synonymous with at this point.
One thing they're great at doing is really creating a great experience and making even first time attendees or readers feel like they can be rock stars too. So today we're going to dig into how that came to be. So just to start things off you don't get to start an industry juggernaut, like Social Media Examiner, out of nowhere.
And you actually had built a personal brand before. All of that. So I'd love it if you could kind of guide us through your, I know about one of your earlier personal brands, perhaps there are more, I don't know, but I'd love to hear your experience. The first time you really knew, oh, what I have here, even if you didn't use the words personal brand, you knew you were you had something going.
[04:28] How white papers launched Mike Stelzner's personal brand
Michael Stelzner:
First of all, thank you for having me on the show. I'm super excited to be here and talk about this topic. I had an agency, a creative agency in the early two thousands, I was helping tech companies with all things related to logo design, corporate branding, trade show, displays, white papers product materials themes, messaging, research, all that kind of stuff.
So I was kind of a full service creative agency in the early 2000s. And then I wrote this little thing called how to write white papers, a white paper on white papers, and it was mostly a lead generation mechanism. And it was a 10 page PDF. I had the first couple of pages available, and then you could fill out a form and get the rest of the PDF email to you.
And in that document, I outlined all the things to think about. And who to look for and when looking for someone to hire and so on and so forth, turns out that that little thing was downloaded 75,000 times. And as a result, writing that resource that ranked in Google search, number one on how to write white papers, I ended up ultimately crafting a book called writing white papers.
Christine Gritmon:
You see what works and you blow it up. You follow what's working.
Michael Stelzner:
And that book got me a lot of notoriety. I was already speaking at events and stuff, but the moment that that book came out, all of a sudden, everybody wanted to interview me on their shows. Eventually I started securing spots one, two, three, four, five, six, eight, nine, and 10 on Google search for white paper.
I own, you know, I had people from overseas thinking I sold white paper, like rims of white paper. Cause they didn't know, obviously things, but I grew my brand pretty rapidly. And before you knew it, I was working with some of the largest businesses in the world, like Hewlett Packard, Motorola, Dow Jones, Microsoft, Qualcomm, and.
Just tons of huge companies, FedEx, and I was known as the guy and and then eventually I ended up experimenting with social media and I started writing about it, and I grew a newsletter, 20, 000 people, by the way, and I started.
Christine Gritmon:
Was this newsletter about white papers?
Michael Stelzner:
It was, yeah, and I started a website called white paper source and I curated people in the industry. It was all about bringing together. And then started talking about social media from the lens of how it could be utilized. In the 2007, 2008 time range
Christine Gritmon:
Very early days.
Michael Stelzner:
To help marketers get exposure for these things that they created called white papers.
And all of a sudden it just blew up and then, the rest of this history, I started a social media examiner. I wrote a book called launch. Which was my second book. and there was a whole bunch of principles that I'll potentially talk about and go on a little bit today. But yeah, I was really well known as a writer and then I went into the social world and I was not known at all.
And everybody knew my brand because this time around, I didn't want it to be all about me. I want it to be about something I created. And eventually when I went to my publisher and said, I wanted to write this book called launch with Wiley, they said, who are you, we don't know who you are. And I said well, I self published my first book and sold 10, 000 copies on my own.
And that's pretty impressive. And I have this website over here and I got all this. Hundreds of thousands of email subscribers. And eventually they said, okay, we'll do it. But it was an interesting journey.
Christine Gritmon:
Yeah, I'd love to dig back and and just so that white paper on white papers was downloaded just so many times how did people find out about that to begin with because you just had a small agency you were probably known, you know within Certain industry clients whatever industry you worked with. What did you do to even get that white paper to make that kind of impact to begin with? Was it your personal brand?
[08:22] How did the white paper get so much traction?
Michael Stelzner:
Because I was a writer, I knew how to write good, things if you will. Like I know how to write good stuff. But I knew I needed to start dominating search. So I went to Google pay per click back in the day is what it was called. And I, I paid the top amount of money to have my white paper be the thing that everyone clicked on.
And then eventually what ended up happening back then. Is there was a lot of bloggers out there and they started referencing it and linking to it. And before you know it, it ranked number one in Google search for how to write a white paper. And there was a lot of people looking to write white papers because in the early two thousands. Prior to the two thousands, there were big media companies that controlled all the eyeballs, right?
And this was an era when you could self publish information, and it was disintermediated media companies and a lot of big tech companies back then had to go pay magazines while they were seeking to learn how to create these things called white papers, which were like informative and persuasive.
And it was a hot thing and it was growing. And I just happened to be the only guy talking about it. And then eventually I became the lead guy talking about it. I mean, there were other people talking about it, but what they didn't understand was the value of creating something free and valuable so that ultimately, you could separate yourself from the pack.
Christine Gritmon:
So now, as a marketer, we draw lines and connections between things for a living, in a sense. It's a big part of the job. White paper. It's very corporate background, all of that. And it makes sense to me. how getting your white paper seen involved leveraging social media.
And as you said, a white paper is ultimately a valuable piece of free content, which is also how you could describe some good social media content. So the line is clear to me, but I imagine your audience maybe didn't see the line as clearly necessarily. So you have this strong personal brand, you're a white paper guy, now all of a sudden you're talking about social media.
So how did you communicate that switch? And how was it taken by people who followed you as the white paper guy? Like how, how would you describe, you know, what some people who came along on your journey perhaps didn't in terms of making that brand pivot?
[10:25] How did Mike pivot from being "The white paper guy" to social media?
Michael Stelzner:
First of all, part of the story is that there were thousands of out of work journalists who were looking to get into corporate business writing that were amongst my followers. And this is an important part of the story. I helped a lot of journalists figure out a new career because they were losing their, their business because traditional magazines and newspapers were going out of business.
So a lot of them had pivoted into writing white papers and they were followers of me, right? And they were listening to all the things that I was talking about in my newsletter that went out every week to 20,000 people. As I started noticing social media was emerging. I started putting more content into that newsletter and more and more people started to be curious about it.
And then I launched an online event. And I recruited this relatively unknown guy who headed up this thing called wine library TV, and his name was Gary Vaynerchuk to be my opening keynote.
Christine Gritmon:
Oh, wow.
Michael Stelzner:
And, and I also had Mari Smith and a number of other people that were emerging stars in the world of social media. And we did an online event. And I charged for it. And this was before I started social media examiner and it blew up. It was a huge success. I interviewed Gary and and it was just early days of social media.
And I started to see the opportunities and I should mention, I launched social media examiner in 2009, but I did this event in 2008 ish, 2009 during the great recession. This was a time when there was a lot of people out of work. They were looking for the next big thing. And social media was it, right?
So I was there, I was early. And I think the key thing that I did in the world of social, that was the connection point that allowed everything to pop in the white paper world. I not only wrote a book, but I released an annual study called the white paper industry report, something along those lines.
So I decided to launch the social media marketing industry report. And I launched the very first one, and you may be familiar with it.
Christine Gritmon:
Yeah, that was not a thing back then. It's hard for a lot of us to remember just how recent ubiquity of social media is. There was not a social media report back then. How did you even make that happen?
Michael Stelzner:
There wasn't even industry, there wasn't even an industry. I called it an industry. So I called it the social media marketing industry report. And first of all, it went nuts. Cause I already knew if you talk about social on social, everybody's going to share it, right? That was the thing. So I knew how to do research, right?
Cause I had done that in my agency and I had done it for my white paper industry stuff. And a lot of people in the industry for white papers wanted to know what was the going rates? What were people doing? They wanted to know what the trends were. So I took that very same thing, published this free resource called the industry report.
And it was, it went nuts. It trended everywhere. Back in the day, there was these things called dig and all these other things, and it trended there and it, it got massive exposure and it helped me grow, a pretty big reputation right out of the gate. So that got the interest of the social media industry.
And then all of a sudden I'm speaking at events, I'm invited to speak at events that I've never been considered to speak at. Before, because I'm the guy that writes the white papers, I'm the, I'm a reputable source in the writing world that writes white papers, which are perceived to be these reputable things.
And here I am coming out with this industry study. And that was the catalyst that connected the dots.
Christine Gritmon:
that's huge. So first you did the social media industry report. Then you did the online event. And then you wound up launching Social Media Examiner. Is that the correct order?
Michael Stelzner: Correct.
Christine Gritmon:
For this event, you had some big names there. Gary Vaynerchuk maybe wasn't as big a name then as he is now, but you had him, you had Mari Smith, you had a whole bunch of great people.
Two fold question here regarding those people's personal brands. First of all, how did you find them? Because I think one of your great skills that most people would recognize is that you are good at identifying talent. How did you Find these people who are in this industry that you are fairly new to, who you knew would be valuable to your audience.
And then the other thing is, how'd you get them?
[14:30] How did Mike build up his contacts in an industry her was relatively new to?
Michael Stelzner:
Okay. So in my second book launch, which I launched specifically to rebrand myself as not just the white paper guy, I introduced a concept called the elevation principle. And this principle is what I employed to get what we were about to talk about. The principle is great content plus other people minus marketing equals growth. OkaY. So what I was doing is it was already publishing great content and it was well recognized by some of these people. And I was already known as a content creator that had a reputable reputation. The other people side of it was really important. In the world of writing white papers and in the blogging world, I was already known.
Cause I was writing on big blogs, like copy blogger, Brian Clark's blog. And I, I was well known in the pro blogger community, which is Darren Rouse's and a lot of these people. So I had people in my network who were active on social before I was. And I went to those people. Jason falls as someone else also who was, who, who was following me in the white paper world and was early into the social world.
And I started talking to them and it was easy because they were within my network. They already knew who I was. And I, and I started befriending them and I started asking them, who do I need to know? And Denise Wakeman said, you need to know Mari Smith, Mari Smith. I went to an event in San Diego. I sat close. I talked to her afterwards. I offered to interview her because I was doing these little interviews before I had a podcast, which were cheesy little video interviews that I did with a portable like camera thing. And then we just became friends. And the idea here was for me to provide value to them first, right?
Which is to give them exposure to the audience that I already had. And Mari introduced me to Gary V. And that's how that happened. So it was really all about really developing key strategic relationships with people that are passionate on the rise and really excited about what's about to happen and bringing something to the table that they maybe don't have, like a bunch of people collaboratively working together to create a cool experience.
And that's that's how I did it in the beginning.
Christine Gritmon:
So then, being a writer, you of course moved this to a content creation platform, to Social Media Examiner.
[16:45] Starting social media examiner
Michael Stelzner:
When I started this social media examiner, I started as a multi author blog, which is a concept back in the day where I wrote once a week and I recruited five or six other people to write once a month. So what was happening is I was publishing a lion's share of the content in the beginning.
And because I had a really good network of people like a gal named Casey Hubbard, who wrote the book on case studies and I had helped her a lot. She agreed to write case studies for free for the first year. So she was doing case studies and we just created a movement. I called it a movement.
We all did it for free. Nobody was paid. It was just going to be like, we're going to come together. We're more powerful together than we are apart and we're going to create something that's going to be big. And you all are going to get benefits from it. And I made it clear, they're going to get exposure, which will lead to opportunities and so on and so on and so on.
Eventually it got to the point where I had so many inbound inquiries that people wanted to write that I didn't have to write anymore.
Christine Gritmon:
Now, I love that you came, you showed up in this new industry with an audience already, which is really huge. And, and you mentioned that journalists I really love that part because I'm one of the many people who came to social media through journalism. It's, it's absolutely highly relevant. It's all about communications.
So your audience came with you because it was still relevant. You brought the value of your audience with you so that those people could get the exposure, get all of that going. Now, you had the website, then the event was born.
You had already done an event, but I'm, I'm curious as to how social media marketing world itself was born. Social media marketing world, by the way, is unquestionably the main source for my connections in the social media industry. It is how I have met the most valuable people who have introduced me to the most valuable people.
It is a juggernaut, but obviously I came into it once it already was a huge amazing thing. So I'd love to hear sort of how that grew and why that grew. Why, why you decided to make it an event? In addition to your blog.
[18:47] How did Mike move people from online content to an in-person conference?
Michael Stelzner:
I had already been doing online events for years. I started social media examiner monetizing it by having the social media success summit, which was the name of the event that I had alluded to earlier. And I had a Facebook success summit and a blogging success summit and just all sorts of summits, it was all online. And I was traveling to Cleveland cause I was keynoting with Brian Clark on the stage together for Joe Polizzi's very first content marketing world. And it was at that event that I looked around and I'm like, there's 600 people there and Joe was really calm.
And I'm like, wow. I never really, I've spoken at a lot of events, but I've never seen the founders calm. And I'm like, why are you so calm, Joe? And he said well, there's people you can hire that can handle all the operational stuff. And I'm like, ching, button went off in my head, started taking pictures, started imagining what I was going to do.
And eventually really the idea was born to experiment with having an an in person conference. Now, in order for me to move people from a big newsletter and a blog to physically showing up at a conference was not going to be an easy task. So I knew that I needed to a Sharpen up my personal brand and be come up with a creative way to get people to actually be willing to travel from all over the world to come to this event.
So the first thing I did was I started my very first podcast called the social media marketing podcast. And I started that now, almost 11 years ago, I'm almost 600 episodes in. And what I strategically did was I'd already developed great relationships with people and I decided to bring them on the show and start interviewing them.
And you know this because you're a writer, but good writers are good interviewers. That's the key, right? You have to know how to get the right information out of your guest. So I started that show, that show popped. It turned out to be one of the top three business shows. I was right up there with Dave Ramsey for years in all the business category.
And the show was called, the podcast was called social media marketing. The conference is called social media marketing. So I was recruiting people on the show that I knew was going to speak at social media marketing world. And the idea here was to introduce them to my audience in this new medium called podcasting for me, at least.
And then eventually these people that were listening to this podcast would love these people and want to meet them in person. So that was the hypothesis. And we ended up having 1100 people at our very first event in a hotel in San Diego. And the rest is history.
Christine Gritmon:
Oh my goodness. You've got three brands at this point in the story. You have the Social Media Examiner blog. And I'd actually put the podcast in with that as well. The Social Media Examiner content family. You've got the event, Social Media Marketing World. And you've got you, Mike Stelzner. So first of all, am I, am I correct that the white paper guy has totally ceased to be something that you're growing, maintaining at this point in the, in the story, where we're
Michael Stelzner:
I, I. I delete about two years into the social media examiner journey. I deleted all the websites, which I was nuts. I still get messages every once in a while from people that bought that first book saying, Hey, still helpful for writing. I will know. But I deleted everything. It was cathartic. It was amazing.
I just abandoned that brand. I have copies of it here, but it doesn't exist on the internet anymore. And and I went all in. So yeah, that's true. I am definitely that that brand is gone.
Christine Gritmon:
That's incredible. Oh my goodness. And that's something that's terrifying for people when they pivot. So on the one hand, you did it two years in. On the other hand, you waited two years to do it. So I think that's smart too. You saw that this new horse you were back and really had legs there. So you've got three brands that are all really cooking now.
You've got the Content brand, you've got the event brand, and you've got you. How did you, and how do you, sort that out? How have you decided to arrange these three brands, and was it tricky? Did you struggle to figure out how to do it at the beginning? Is it constantly evolving? How do you manage the three?
[22:42] How does Mike balance having three different brands?
Michael Stelzner:
Yeah. So first of all, obviously I wrote the book to bring my personal brand back into the equation, the book launch. And that really catapulted my personal brand. And that was about two years into the social media examiner journey. Everything happened with that. You know what I mean? It blew up everybody expected that I was a social media expert and I never really was right. The book launches really more about how to use content to launch anything. Realized that I didn't want to be famous. Despite the fact that I got calls from every news station, you can imagine every time something happened.
Wall street journal, new york times, all that stuff. I turned it all down. Some of it, I said, okay, too, but I just didn't want to get involved with that side of it. So I was careful about how to leverage the personal brand. My personal feeling is I only use the personal brand specifically if it benefits the business brand.
The big side of my personal brand is obviously my podcast. There are people that know my voice, but don't know my face. And it's funny and funny stories happen all the time, but I'm very much an operator of my business. So I'm very much an in the trench kind of person making everything work much less about the guy has to be super famous and everybody has to bow down to me.
That's not how I roll. So I leverage my personal brand to strategically get people on my podcast and I strategically get people on my podcast because our relationships with people. Cause that's strategic to the business. And I want to lift up the next generation, if you will, or the up and comers that are about to be the next Gary Vaynerchuk's and the next Mari Smith's.
So I use it very strategically to accomplish a larger business objective. Every once in a while, I come out and I try to leverage my personal brand to launch a course and I realize it's dangerous distraction for me because then it takes me away from my true mission, which is to run this company that I own.
So it is, it is one of those kind of things where we know that I am very well known. And we know that a lot of people want to listen to me. I always open my conference. I'm always the opening keynote that is very strategic. It's always research based. That is very strategic. But but really, I am first and foremost a CEO of a media company and secondly of a personal brand.
Christine Gritmon:
Love that. Yeah, it sounds pretty well sorted. And certainly, wherever the Mike Stelzner name goes, the Social Media Examiner name goes as well.
You mentioned how you also uplift other people's brands, and that is absolutely something that you're known for as well. I'd love to hear a bit from you without, without naming names or getting too specific, first of all, how do you identify those people who seem to really have the goods to uplift?
And then what have you seen from their perspective? Once you give them the opportunity, What have you seen that sort of commonality is between those who take the opportunity and are able to build something with it? They're able to use that elevation Versus those who maybe don't as much and don't really hit.
[25:37] How does Mike find up and coming industry voices?
Michael Stelzner:
In the early days, and this might've been before Christine, you attended social media marketing world. We used to have actually sessions there at social media marketing world, specifically training, teaching people what we're looking for in speakers at our conference. So we would teach them like, Hey, this is how we roll.
This is what we look for. Cause everybody is a hundred percent recruited. There's no application process. And, and that was during the heyday when we would have 10 or 12 different tracks and there was just so much content. It was nuts. Over time I began to get to the point where this is how I roll today.
I take research. We do two studies a year. One, we publish when we don't, and we survey our audience, thousands of marketers, and we know what it is they're interested in. We actually asked them, what do you want to learn more about? What do you plan to increase in the next 12 months? Then we use that data and we look at our network, if you will, of experts.
And we say, Hey AI is hot right now. Who do we have in our network that is really, really strong on AI? Okay. Obvious choices. Paul Roetzer are a marketing AI Institute. There's obviously other people that we need, right? So then we look at who's our audience and then we begin the process of looking for talent specifically to fill that hole, right?
And that's where, for example, I'll find someone like Matt Wolf. Who's blown up on YouTube, who I recently had on the show to talk about AI tools, and now Matt's going to be speaking at our conference. It's really all about using data to inform the things we're going to write about, talk about, and speak about at our event, and then carefully finding talent that fits the criteria typically because we are an audience of mostly women, we're definitely looking for female talent. And that's one thing you'll notice at our events is we have a lot of women speakers because our audience is mostly women. And also because we want to give diversity to our audience for sure.
But we also want people who Have demonstrated publicly that they are experts. It's one thing to know you're an expert and to say you're an expert, but it's another thing for someone to go out there and see that you have launched a YouTube channel and committed to creating content around this, or you've launched a podcast or you have a blog or you've written a book.
The key to the whole thing is like people that have done those hard things like YouTube channels, podcasts, and books, they have looked at. This whatever topic from a thousand different angles, they might have students who they've taught and they've dialed in their message quite a bit. Those are the kind of people that I like to get on my show.
And those are like the kind of people that I like to bring to my audience. So it's very much a audience first approach. Our audience tells us what they want based on the research. We try to find talent. I nurture relationships with those people by getting them on my show or on our other shows, because we've got multiple shows.
We've got three different shows. And then out of that, we can assess whether or not they really know their stuff. And then we can consider them for other possible opportunities inside of social media examiner. I know you had another question in there and I probably lost it, but
Christine Gritmon:
No, absolutely. And that actually Saved me another question, which is later I was gonna ask you about the types of content that are best for building a personal brand But that is that so that's a really valuable chunk right there to know how people can get attention. You've given people, you've had someone on your podcast who's an expert, you've had them speak at your conference, that's an incredible boost to their personal brand.
But as we all know, sometimes people take those opportunities and it just really blows up after. And sometimes people, fall down on it. It falls flat after they've had that opportunity. They're not sure how to leverage it properly. to work for their brand. Again, without getting specific or personal, what are some commonalities you've seen for those who were able to really make it work for them versus those where it doesn't really go anywhere?
[29:33] What should you do if you are asked to be on stage?
Michael Stelzner:
First and foremost, general tips for everybody listening. When you get an opportunity to be on any kind of big stage metaphorically or physically take it seriously, ask the host, what can I do to best prepare actually prepare, don't. Wing it, prepare, because this is your one chance really.
And if you do a really good job, you're going to, you're going to have a lot of people ringing your bell metaphorically later saying they want to work with you. That's the first thing. The second thing is to is to. Not just reach out to all the big shows, right? But start with the little shows and refine your message a little bit.
Sometimes you'd be surprised that the people that host the big shows, listen to the little shows. And that's partly where they find talent. Just know it's not easy. It's a long haul. It's a refinement thing. You have to not want. Fame necessarily, like ideally you're in it because you have a, you want to make a difference, right?
[30:25] What characteristic does Mike think makes someone successful?
Michael Stelzner:
I find that those are real, those that are really successful. Don't hold back. They give all the gems and the wisdom and they don't say here's three and the other five are available. If you. You hire me, right? That's not, that's not what we talk about with the elevation principle, right? It's great content plus other people minus marketing messages.
So us marketers have to throw out the marketing message and just say, look, I want to give this away free to the world because there's so much more out there, right? You could write a book. And you know that there's 10 more books inside of you, the book is your ideas are always evolving.
So the people that are most successful kind of have this service mentality, this servant mentality, they just want to give and they want to give. And they know that they don't need that many people to become customers for them to be exceptionally successful. And those are the kind of people that tend to get asked back.
Over and over again on lots of other people's shows and speak on lots of other people's stages. It is work. It is never easy. You can't say because you spoke on this stage or because you're on this podcast, you made it and then you stop. It is something that you have to continue to do over and over and over again.
Christine Gritmon:
Love it. Of course, one key principle of being a personal brand is being the such and such person. You are the white paper person. Mike Stelzner. What do you currently see yourself as the such and such person? And I don't know if that's what you want to continue being, or if there's a future I want to be the such and such person moving forward.
I'm not sure what you're, what you're geeking out on right now. But Mike Stelzner, the what person.
[32:00] What is Mike's current mission?
Michael Stelzner
I I'm currently writing every week on all the social platforms about marketing topics. Entrepreneurship and also for creators. So the things that I'm excited to write about, for example, today, I just wrote about how sometimes we have to acknowledge that we don't know how to do something right.
And what do you do when you don't know how to do something right. You do this and you do that. And how I've come to the realization that sometimes you can't figure it all out and you need to. You need to, you need to bring in professional help, right? These are the kinds of things I write about. Sometimes I'll write about trends that are going on in the industry, but in the end, everything that I do right now has very much to do with marketing.
And really that is what I want people to think of me as, as a marketer, first and foremost, a marketer that helps other marketers. Other content creators, podcasters, bloggers, video creators, and entrepreneurs, right? Which could be agency owners, consultants authors dot, dot, dot helps them wrap their head around what, how, how to embrace this changing world.
That's it. I'm really, I feel like my mission is to help people wrap their head around change and wrap their head around mindset challenges and how to how to think differently to survive and thrive in a changing world, because the truth of the matter is Christine, this world is rapidly changing, changing faster than any of us have ever seen.
And you can be overwhelmed like most of my audience is, or you can actually run to the fire, if you will embrace the change. And be open to the fact that, that you could be an early adopter and there's incredible opportunities that are out there. And that's what I'm trying to help people with today is really just to wrap their head around how to embrace change so they can be a better marketer, a better person dot, dot, dot.
Christine Gritmon:
Perfect, and sounds absolutely aligned with that servant mentality. And, of course, with that elevate principle. All right, Mike, thank you so much. This has been incredible. Thank you very much for practicing what you preach and not holding back so many valuable nuggets of wisdom in here that can elevate other people's personal brands.
[34:11] How to connect with Mike
Christine Gritmon:
So tell everyone at home where they can find you, why they should find you, and what they'll find there.
Michael Stelzner:
Social media examiner has everything. So if you go to social media, examiner. com, you can find all three of our shows. You can find our conference. if You want to follow me I am active on Twitter slash X LinkedIn. And Facebook, so you can just search for my name there and you can see all the stuff that I'm publishing exclusively on those platforms.
The reason you might want to follow me is you're in marketing and you're confused and you want some access to some great stuff and you should know that it's social media examiner. We put out an incredibly rich newsletter that contains literally up to the day information about trends that are happening in our industry.
And it's content that you will not find anywhere else except in our email newsletter. And that's recently been completely revamped and people are loving it. So check it out. Social media, examiner. com.
Christine Gritmon:
Fantastic. Thank you so much for being here.
Michael Stelzner:
My pleasure.
Christine Gritmon:
And thank you for being here, whether you are listening to the Let's Talk About Brand podcast on your podcast player of choice, or if you're watching the video podcast here on YouTube. Either way, please do subscribe so you don't miss a single weekly episode of Let's Talk About Brand.
We are taking a holiday break for a couple of weeks. So please do join us in January 2024 for the back half of season four. And in the meantime, again, this is season four. We've got a whole lot of episodes that you can go back and still learn from.
One of the great things about personal branding tends to be a bit evergreen. So lots of episodes there for you to dig into. I highly encourage and hope that you will spend part of your holiday break learning about personal branding right here with Let's Talk About Brand. See you next year. Bye!
S4 Ep11: Let’s Talk About Branding for Creatives with Liz Mosley
Today I’m talking to fellow brand designer, Liz Mosely! We dive deep into what it means to develop a brand for creatives, how Liz transitioned her brand from a creative to a service provider and how her podcast Building Your Brand has played into her growth!
This week I’m excited to talk to fellow brand designer, Liz Mosley!
Liz was originally a stationary designer before recognizing her knack for branding creatives. We’re going to talk about how she first became an entrepreneur with her stationary business and how she ultimately transitioned into brand design. She’s going to share with us important considerations when branding for creatives because it is a bit different from other types of personal branding.
We are also going to talk about the evolution of Liz's own personal brand, and we’re going to get to the things that she has learned from her own podcast, Building Your Brand.
Tune in as we talk about:
[00:00] Welcome Liz Mosley!
[02:26] How did Liz come to focus on branding?
[07:09] What has it been like for Liz to brand herself?
[09:06] How did you brand Liz Mosley Designs when it was a stationary company
[15:30] How it's different working with a fellow creative on the creative elements of their brand?
[18:42] What are the elements that creatives need to have in their branding?
[23:04] The story of Liz's brand transition
[27:30] How has Liz's podcast fit into her brand?
[31:20] Connect with Liz Mosley
Contact Liz Mosley
Podcast: Building Your Brand - https://www.lizmosley.net/podcast
Website: Liz Mosley Design - https://www.lizmosley.net/
Social Media: at LizMMosley
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Christine Gritmon:
Hello and welcome to Let's Talk About Brand. I'm your host, Christine Gritmon, and I'm coming at you every single week on both the podcast and the video podcast on YouTube, talking to a different guest expert every single week about personal branding. This week's guest, Liz Mosley, actually does the same thing.
I was on her podcast, Building Your Brand, a few weeks back. We were originally going to do like a joint episode, but I'm really glad we didn't because this meant that we got two amazing conversations that went in slightly different directions, which is always gold. So I'm so happy I got another opportunity to chat with Liz.
Liz is, of course, a graphic designer. Liz mostly designs. And she originally, was a stationary designer before recognizing, or rather before other creatives, really, recognized her knack for branding. And they needed her to help her brand them. So Liz designs for all sorts of brands, but she especially has heart for designing for fellow creatives.
And we're going to dig into that, how she got there. What's important in branding for creatives because it is a bit different from branding, like a consumer brand, like Coke or Nike or something. Branding as an artist, as a creative, as a maker is a very specific thing, and it's something that Liz understands really well, which helps her in her work.
So we're going to talk about how she came to that, all the stuff that goes into branding a creative, how it's different from working with other people. We're going to talk about the evolution of Liz's own personal brand, of course. And then we're, of course, going to get to the things that she has learned from her own podcast, Building Your Brand.
All right, so without any further ado, let's talk about brand with the host of Building Your brand builder Liz Mosley. Come on down.
Liz Mosley:
Love it. Thanks for having me.
Christine Gritmon:
Thanks for being here. Now, I was on your podcast recently, and so now you're on mine, and we've been at the same events and all of that. And of course. One word in particular attracted me, obviously, brand! Yay, brand! Love branding people. So I would love to hear just a little bit of kind of background from you as to how you got into branding.
How branding became your brand. How that really became your thing to focus on.
[00:02:26] How did Liz come to focus on branding?
Liz Mosley:
Yeah, sure. I guess I come to it from a bit more of the design perspective than you do, but basically I studied graphic design at university, it's always been my thing, I've absolutely loved it. I'm probably one of the rare people who are actually working in the field that they studied in because I feel like amongst my friends and my peers now that is becoming, like we all have a lot more varied and interesting careers, I think, where people move around a bit.
But yeah, so I've been working in design for over 15 years. And basically, I spent a long time working in house at a university. And while I was there, I really loved working there, but obviously was working for the same brand all the time, design wise, and
Christine Gritmon:
just to clarify, do you mean like literally doing design for the university?
Liz Mosley:
yeah, exactly, they had, so their communications team had a whole design department, so I was part of the design department, so it was Yeah, it was really varied, which I really loved, but it was always working for the same brand. And so basically I set up my own stationery business, a bit of a hobby business where I could design whatever I wanted that wasn't for a client.
And if people liked it, then they would buy it. And that catapulted me into I guess the world of creative small businesses, creative makers, and I used to go and do markets in London at the weekend and it was an amazing community to be part of and eventually when I had kids I decided I wouldn't go back to my full time job and I would set up on my own and I actually started doing my freelance work before kids because small businesses started asking me if I could do branding for them.
And I got a real taste for it really loved it loved that sort of community in that group of people. And yeah started designing branding. So I almost have two arms to my own business now, which was designing branding for small businesses and then also designing my own stationery and selling that. And after my second child was born I got to the point where I was like, I, if I want to make either of these businesses a success, I need to go all in.
So I either needed to go all in on like wholesale with the stationery business, or I needed to go all in on the branding for small businesses. And that is what the route I decided to go down. So I shut my stationery business, went all in on the services side of my business. And I'm so glad I did. It was definitely the best decision.
I absolutely love it. I've been focusing on the branding, like the designing, branding small businesses for about seven years now and Yeah it's my true love. I love it.
Christine Gritmon:
I love that we've been on parallel paths. I also left a day job to do something more creative after having my first child and actually started my own business properly after my second child. It's really funny how they make you prioritize. They make you realize if I'm going to be putting my energy towards something besides them. It should be something that's really worth it.
Liz Mosley:
I think that's so true and I think it's interesting hearing other people because sometimes I feel like I've done my career a bit backwards and I feel like having kids actually made me Become more ambitious and want to build my own thing, but I think like you say that's such a that's such a good way of explaining it Is that actually if i'm going to spend my time and energy on something aside from my kids?
I want it to be something, you know I want to build something for me and something that's going to benefit them as well. And yeah, I mean I would really struggle, I think, to go back to working for someone else now because I've really got a taste for the self employed life which always makes me laugh because that was never a goal of mine.
A lot of my friends when we came out of art college and finished university had, dreams of setting up their own agencies or working for themselves and that was never an aspiration of mine. But yeah, having kids really changed that for me.
Christine Gritmon:
Absolutely. And a lot of times these things and these places you're meant to be, they find you when you're open to it, which is really lovely. So to back up a little into your story, so you had a stationary business. And I'm going to make a leap here and guess that the reason other creative businesses wanted you to help with your branding is because your own branding was on point.
I'd like to hear about how you built that brand. I know it's not something you're working on anymore but I'd imagine that was a moment for you in terms of your branding journey for helping brand others. So tell me about the process of branding your stationary brand. What was it called? First of all?
[00:07:09] What has it been like for Liz to brand herself?
Liz Mosley:
It all came under my name. So I have always built my brand as a personal brand. So it was called Liz Mosley Design, which is what my business still is called now. So I've always kept it under the same thing. And actually, I think, I am, I'm super critical of my own brand. And I think often There's a lot of, do as I say, not as I do, because I think there's a lot of areas in my personal brand that I could improve.
But I think one of the interesting things for me when it's come to branding myself, and I think this is something that is quite unique to creatives is I think often I've worked with like lots of illustrators, especially like through my courses and things like that illustrators, artists who want to think more about their branding.
And I think one of the struggles is like knowing whether to put your business under your name or whether to give it a different name. And I think that for creatives often coming under their name can work really well because what they're selling is their unique style and their work. And how their like creative work looks is such a big part of their brand.
So it's always been under my name. which I think when I look back, I'm like that was maybe that was a bit boring, but actually I think it's worked really well for me now. Because the personal brand has always been there. So it's been easier to grow on that as my business has changed.
Christine Gritmon:
And I'm sure it also helped with the pivot, because now you've run two businesses under the same name, essentially. And we will get to the pivot in a bit, because I am curious about how you navigated that. But let's talk about how you branded Liz Mosley Designs when it was straight up a stationary company, and then how others came to you from there.
[00:09:06] How did you brand Liz Mosley Designs when it was a stationary company
Liz Mosley:
Yeah one of, so one of the things I think is quite interesting is I think if you are a designer or an illustrator or a painter, I actually think there's different challenges for you with your visual branding because I think often your work needs to take centre stage and your, visual branding then needs to almost take a bit of a step back and be there to enhance and support it, but not distract from it.
And I think this is something that like a lot of creatives struggle with because I think often when you see businesses, rebranding or launching like rebranding new branding, there's a real story with the actual how the brand looks and there's a concept and there's all of this stuff that goes around it. But I think for creatives often that isn't necessarily the route that they should go down because I think their work needs to take center stage I think it's a really tricky balance.
And so I feel like for mine actually, it was more about the products that I was selling than how the brand looked so I have always gone for, I mean a big influence of my work has always been hand drawn elements and almost a bit of a, not lo fi because it was never lo fi, but I've always loved the experimentation of making marks by hand, scanning them in, using those elements in design.
And so my personal brand always had that sort of style, that hand drawn style, which was also reflected in the products that I was designing as well. And so I think in that sense, those things have always tied together and then that visual has flowed through to my brand now, even though it's a bit slicker and it's a bit cleaner now, I would say.
There's still that nod to the hand drawn. So my logo is basically pretty much my signature, it's like a handwritten version of my name. And it's not going to win any awards and it's not got any sort of magical secret concept behind it, but at the same time, it's very personal, it's, I think it's like warm and welcoming and friendly, and yeah, that's the sort of route that I've gone down.
Christine Gritmon:
I love your point about how for creatives, the brand needs to not be so structured. That it's the thing before the creations and the art, because the art needs to be able to have, you know, different collections and go in different directions. It needs to be flexible. So that is, is certainly a really good point.
Being on brand should not stifle your creativity in a creative brand. But to that end, I've worked with creatives before and, artists and makers and things like that. One thing I've seen some of them struggle with is the idea of being a brand, simply because it's from a passion and it's so personal and even if they have made a business out of it, there's often even a bit of conflict there about ...
Liz Mosley:
Yeah, I think that's such a good point, and I think I've definitely noticed that teaching workshops and teaching about branding, that has been a huge barrier for a lot of creatives. And I definitely used to feel this as well, like early on in my career. Like I think there's almost this negative connotation around brand.
And I think a lot of creatives see it as something really corporate and something, that is exclusively for huge corporations. Like the sort of businesses that they wouldn't want to identify with, or they wouldn't want to put themselves in the same class with, and I do think that is a real mental block for a lot of creatives and such an interesting point.
But I think it's one of those things that it's so important that we work through mentally and we get through that barrier because actually I think it's really hard to take your business seriously and to make it what it could be, you know, like to turn it into something really successful that's going to work for you, unless you shift your mindset and start thinking of it as a business and as a brand and thinking Of yourself as a personal brand and I think that has got easier now that we talk about personal brands because I think the idea of Having a personal brand as a creative is more palatable than the idea of having say a corporate or a you know like more business focused brand. So I think that sort of has been a helpful mental shift for creatives for sure But I do think that there is a lot of like mindset stuff that needs to happen to move past that point of hobby business or I think there's still leftovers, you know of this narrative that creatives tell themselves that you know That they can't make good money and that they're a struggling artist, I think a lot of damage has been done with that kind of like narrative that has gone through in the past and it's definitely changing and I think one of the things that I love about social media is that We now get to see and watch creative businesses one person, creative businesses, personal brands, like really grow and flourish and become extremely successful.
And I think it's really important that we can see that so that people know what's possible. But yeah, I think that's such a good point because there is a mindset shift that needs to happen so that we can make strategic decisions and we can make good decisions based on how we are going to grow our brands, whether that's a personal one or not.
Christine Gritmon:
Now to that end about creatives growing their brands as you said before, for a creative, their brand, it is very personal and they are a creative person. So for a creative person to hire an outside creative to help them with their creativity I imagine that's a very specific way of working and that working with creatives is probably a little bit different from people working with clients who are more businessy focused as opposed to creative person, first person. So I'd love to hear from you, Liz, how it's different working with a fellow creative on the creative elements of their brand. Do they tend to have more input? Do they tend to be more worried? Like how does that work? And how does it differ?
[00:15:30] How it's different working with a fellow creative on the creative elements of their brand?
Liz Mosley:
Yeah, I think that's a really good point. I think there are some differences and I think there are some pros and cons. I think one of the good things about working with creatives is that they are often able to express an idea and a vision Like a creative vision that they have because they are used to using that language and they are used to explaining themselves creatively.
So I think that is a plus point. I've definitely worked with clients in the past that have known that something is not exactly how they want it to be, but haven't been able to I guess analyze or assess why and then be able to verbalize that and so I think something You know a lot of creatives if especially if they've been to art college, you know that you get trained you get given those tools like how do you explain your work?
How do you break it down? How do you analyze it? So that's helpful I think one of the things that is particularly difficult for creatives is obviously They have a lot of creative skill and ability. They can imagine something in their mind and then they can turn that into something. That doesn't necessarily mean that they have the tools that they need to create branding. But it does mean that I think for them It's a bit scary the thought of giving that to someone else to do.
There's a couple of ways that I've tackled this. One is that my process as a branding designer is very collaborative. So I make sure that there's a lot of rounds of feedback and there's lots of options. The way I create and present work allows for them to analyze and compare things and give me feedback and we. Work together then to get the design to what they want it to be But also that is a big part of why I created a course which is basically called design your own branding
And there was like a few motivations for doing this. I think Probably some people in the design industry Would frown on this as an idea, but I do think that there are a lot of creative practitioners who don't want to lose the sort of control of that creative process and they want to create their own branding.
They just don't necessarily have the process or the tools that they need to do it. And so then I can guide them through that process and be there to support them and help them and give them advice and give them technical advice as well. If they maybe don't know how to use the tools, but they're still then in control of the creative process.
So I've gone down two different routes. Refined my process to make it work well for other creatives, but also taught courses so that they can actually retain control of that creative process.
Christine Gritmon:
What are some of the elements that creatives in particular really need to have in their branding? And does it differ from how another brand might? I mean, to your point earlier, with creatives, the work has to come first. The brand can't really be the thing that's in the front there. So what are considerations when coming up with branding for a creative?
[00:18:42] What are the elements that creatives need to have in their branding?
Liz Mosley:
So I think they really need to think of how the visuals of their brand are going to work alongside their actual work. And I think a big part where we see this, like one of the first things that we notice about brands, just because of how our brains work as humans, one of the first things we notice is the color.
And it's very subconscious. And I think One of the challenges for creative businesses is often their work has a lot of color in it. And so they need branding that is going to be flexible enough to like exactly how you mentioned earlier, like it needs to be something that's going to work with different collections.
It's going to work as their, as their sort of creative practice and their work evolves and changes over time. And so I think that is something. to consider.
And I often think that branding for creatives needs to be on the simpler side rather than the sort of more complex side. And I've seen, there's lots of different examples and there's never one size fits all, but like I've seen some instances where, you'll have an illustrator who has really bright, vibrant, creative work, and actually the best option for them from a branding perspective is to actually keep their Brand like and how it looks almost like monochrome and simple so that it is a nice contrast to then their bright vibrant work and then it's not clashing with the colors and like their work then take center stage.
And so I think that's what always needs to be thought about is how can the branding support and elevate the work. Instead of distract from the work. And I think if you start to get into having quite a complex color palette and then, maybe the tones don't go with the sort of illustrative style or the products or, whatever it is that you're selling.
I think that's where, you can get into trouble and I think one of the important things is creating visual branding that is going to grow with your business because I think another struggle that creators can particularly have and I definitely feel this so keenly as a designer is I love all different types of style of design I enjoy different trends.
I enjoy different Like feels of designs and so the temptation can be to want to change my branding all the time You know as I see a new really beautiful font and I'm like, oh I wish that was part of my branding or there's you know I want to add in a new color and that's not to say that your brand can't change over time.
It absolutely can But there is definitely a breakdown of trust if you are rebranding and changing the look of your brand all of the time. And so I think when it comes to creatives, having something that's on the simpler side, but that allows room for your creative practice to grow without you having to change the look and feel of your brand all the time is really important.
But as well, I think like the question that I always come back to, and I'm sure that this is similar for the work that you do with brands is Really thinking about how they want people to feel when they interact with their branding because I think so much of design is expressing a feeling through the way something looks.
And I think that's definitely the case for branding is, how do you get across that feeling and how do you use visuals to help people feel a particular way? And I think coming back to that question as you think about how you want your brand to look is really helpful.
Christine Gritmon:
So to that end, you took your brand, Liz Mosley Designs, as a stationary designer, and you had a brand transition into being a designer for brands, a designer of brands, a brand designer. So how did you navigate that transition, and how did your brand change, if at all, and how did you express the change?
I love stories of brand transitions, because that's, to me, One of the best things about a personal brand is that you can change what it means and what it does and what it stands for because it's still you.
So what did you change? What did you keep the same? And how did you get the message out there that you were now something else?
[00:23:04] The story of Liz's brand transition
Liz Mosley:
Yeah, it's interesting because, I think and this is actually something that we chatted about when you were on my podcast which I think was really a really helpful point, which is that if your brand values remain the same which they usually do because especially as you know If you're a one person business your brand values are often very closely tied to your personal values But it just means that your brand and your business can pivot and change, but those values underpin everything that you do and they stay the same.
And so I think those aspects of my business have really stayed consistent. Despite my business changing. It was like a slow transition, I would say. I think I started talking more about branding in general, and obviously, stopped talking so much about the products.
And I think I just took people along on that journey with me, particularly through social media. I think there will definitely be people who are following me and were more interested in the product sides of my business than the services side. And I think we get so worried about people not, like unfollowing us or not being interested in our business anymore.
And I actually think that having the attitude of, actually it's fine for you to move on because my brand isn't right for you anymore or isn't of interest to you anymore. And To just have a sort of spirit of like happily sending those people off on their journey and, it being okay that they're not into my business anymore.
I think one of the things that I've been talking a lot about recently, and I know you've heard me talk about this at a conference, is this idea of rejection. And that actually we need certain people to reject us because our brand isn't the right fit for them. And so I think, being okay with that.
And being okay with people moving on and then attracting the right people for my business definitely helped as I transitioned.
And I think just over time and this has definitely been like a work in progress and a journey for me. It's just getting clearer on my message and clearer on my sort of content pillars and what I talk about and what I communicate about as my brand and it's so interesting to me because seven years ago You know I was talking I just launched my best selling project for my, product based business.
And now, most people that follow me don't even know that I had a stationary business. So over time, that really has changed. I think one of the things that made it easier for me is that I have ne And this isn't necessarily good advice, but I have never really niched down my content on Instagram. Because I wanted to be able to just talk about my creativity and my practice in general.
And I think actually when it came to pivoting, my brand and what I was doing that actually made things easier for me because people were already used to me talking about, yeah, my products, but also just creativity in general and what I was working on and what I was enjoying. And so that made actually meant that there wasn't so big a change.
Yes. I stopped talking about the products as much, but I was still talking about similar concepts like there was similar. content themes that had always been running through my content and that made things easier for me. And I think probably, that comes back to what we've talked about before is having those sort of brand values fairly like clear in my mind.
And so those threads remained consistent even when the look and feel of my brand changed.
Christine Gritmon:
To that end, as you mentioned, you have always talked about branding in your content. It's always been a focus. And you've brought people along with you as you go. And that brings us to a great example of that, which is your podcast, building your brand. So how did that come about and what have been some of your key learnings in the process of doing the podcast?
Because I know for me doing Let's Talk About Brand, the best part has been that I get to learn amazing things from great people and make content out of it. So Liz, I'd love to hear your experience with the branding podcast.
How did you start building your brand and why did you start it and what's the journey been like?
[00:27:30] How has Liz's podcast fit into her brand?
Liz Mosley:
So one of my values is definitely generosity. And I think it fit that. Starting a podcast really fitted in with that, as I mentioned, my target audience is small businesses and often, one of the things I've always been really aware of is that often people who are like running a business by themselves don't necessarily have the budget to spend thousands of pounds on their visual branding early on in their business and, maybe that's something that comes further down the line.
But I always felt really passionately about supporting those businesses, even if they weren't in a position to pay me to do their branding for them. So the podcast was a big part of that and how I could support that particular group of people, because I knew that I could create this sort of free content, but that genuinely had like helpful tips and advice that they could implement. I was quite reluctant about starting a podcast mainly because I started just over two and a half years ago now, so it was in the midst of the pandemic and it really felt like everybody was starting a podcast and I'm a bit petty I think sometimes where I'm like if everyone else is doing something then it makes me not want to do it but I was chatting to a friend of mine who's a podcast editor and she was like I really think that you would enjoy it, I think you should give it a go and we actually did a skill swap and so she needed branding and was my ideal kind of Client and I really wanted to give podcasting a go and so we did a skill swap and I did her branding and she edited My podcast for me and that's how I got started and It's honestly been one of the best things that i've done for my business, but it's been the One of the best things that I could have done for growing my brand and my sort of reputation as a branding designer. And I think yeah similarly to you I Get to learn so much from the people that I interview which is amazing that one of the sort of side effects that I hadn't really consider is how it's grown my network and we Like I was gonna sit here and chat for I don't know 30 minutes to an hour and actually you get to know people Really well when you talk to them in that kind of way And so I have built up friendships and relationships with the people that have been on my podcast I've kept in touch with them.
I've met them in person, you know all these different things and yeah, it's really grown, it's grown my network in a way that I hadn't really imagined. And it's just got me on the radar of people that I wouldn't have expected to. I would credit my podcast with my work with Adobe. I've had an ongoing relationship doing work for them for the last sort of nearly two years now which has been amazing and again really fits in with my brand values and Supporting small businesses and so I feel like I've got all these different strands the podcast of which is one That really support my values for my brand But also, it's great for Raising my profile as well.
And yeah, it's just been such an incredible experience and I think has genuinely helped the target audience that I want to help because I have, yeah I'm really fortunate. I get lovely messages from listeners, who are like, Oh, I've just starting out my business and your podcast has been so helpful.
And, this episode really helped me with X, Y, Z. And. That's just an amazing feeling that I can create this free resource that helps the exact sort of target audience that I want to support.
Christine Gritmon:
And there goes that. Generosity is brand value. You have certainly been very generous with us here today, Liz. Thank you so much for this conversation. Please let the people at home know where they can find you, why they should find you, and what they will find there.
[00:31:20] Connect with Liz Mosley
Liz Mosley:
Sure. You can definitely come and check out my, if, if you're listening to this podcast, let's talk about brand. And I think you will enjoy mine as well called building your brand. And it's all about branding and marketing. You can find me on social media at Liz M Mosley, where I share lots of tips and Ideas and thoughts about branding and how you can improve your branding.
And you can also find me on my website, which is Liz Mosley design, where you can find out about the services that I offer and yeah the sort of different packages that I have available. If you're interested in working with me.
Christine Gritmon:
Awesome. Thank you so much for being here, Liz.
Liz Mosley:
Oh, thanks for having me. It's really fun chatting to you.
Christine Gritmon:
And thank you for being here for Let's Talk About Brand. Whether you are listening to it on your podcast player of choice, or you're here on YouTube joining us for the video podcast, either way, please be sure to subscribe so you don't miss a single weekly episode.
And I will be back next week with another very smart guest expert talking about another eleme