S4 Ep11: Let’s Talk About Branding for Creatives with Liz Mosley
This week I’m excited to talk to fellow brand designer, Liz Mosley!
Liz was originally a stationary designer before recognizing her knack for branding creatives. We’re going to talk about how she first became an entrepreneur with her stationary business and how she ultimately transitioned into brand design. She’s going to share with us important considerations when branding for creatives because it is a bit different from other types of personal branding.
We are also going to talk about the evolution of Liz's own personal brand, and we’re going to get to the things that she has learned from her own podcast, Building Your Brand.
Tune in as we talk about:
[00:00] Welcome Liz Mosley!
[02:26] How did Liz come to focus on branding?
[07:09] What has it been like for Liz to brand herself?
[09:06] How did you brand Liz Mosley Designs when it was a stationary company
[15:30] How it's different working with a fellow creative on the creative elements of their brand?
[18:42] What are the elements that creatives need to have in their branding?
[23:04] The story of Liz's brand transition
[27:30] How has Liz's podcast fit into her brand?
[31:20] Connect with Liz Mosley
Contact Liz Mosley
Podcast: Building Your Brand - https://www.lizmosley.net/podcast
Website: Liz Mosley Design - https://www.lizmosley.net/
Social Media: at LizMMosley
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Christine Gritmon:
Hello and welcome to Let's Talk About Brand. I'm your host, Christine Gritmon, and I'm coming at you every single week on both the podcast and the video podcast on YouTube, talking to a different guest expert every single week about personal branding. This week's guest, Liz Mosley, actually does the same thing.
I was on her podcast, Building Your Brand, a few weeks back. We were originally going to do like a joint episode, but I'm really glad we didn't because this meant that we got two amazing conversations that went in slightly different directions, which is always gold. So I'm so happy I got another opportunity to chat with Liz.
Liz is, of course, a graphic designer. Liz mostly designs. And she originally, was a stationary designer before recognizing, or rather before other creatives, really, recognized her knack for branding. And they needed her to help her brand them. So Liz designs for all sorts of brands, but she especially has heart for designing for fellow creatives.
And we're going to dig into that, how she got there. What's important in branding for creatives because it is a bit different from branding, like a consumer brand, like Coke or Nike or something. Branding as an artist, as a creative, as a maker is a very specific thing, and it's something that Liz understands really well, which helps her in her work.
So we're going to talk about how she came to that, all the stuff that goes into branding a creative, how it's different from working with other people. We're going to talk about the evolution of Liz's own personal brand, of course. And then we're, of course, going to get to the things that she has learned from her own podcast, Building Your Brand.
All right, so without any further ado, let's talk about brand with the host of Building Your brand builder Liz Mosley. Come on down.
Liz Mosley:
Love it. Thanks for having me.
Christine Gritmon:
Thanks for being here. Now, I was on your podcast recently, and so now you're on mine, and we've been at the same events and all of that. And of course. One word in particular attracted me, obviously, brand! Yay, brand! Love branding people. So I would love to hear just a little bit of kind of background from you as to how you got into branding.
How branding became your brand. How that really became your thing to focus on.
[00:02:26] How did Liz come to focus on branding?
Liz Mosley:
Yeah, sure. I guess I come to it from a bit more of the design perspective than you do, but basically I studied graphic design at university, it's always been my thing, I've absolutely loved it. I'm probably one of the rare people who are actually working in the field that they studied in because I feel like amongst my friends and my peers now that is becoming, like we all have a lot more varied and interesting careers, I think, where people move around a bit.
But yeah, so I've been working in design for over 15 years. And basically, I spent a long time working in house at a university. And while I was there, I really loved working there, but obviously was working for the same brand all the time, design wise, and
Christine Gritmon:
just to clarify, do you mean like literally doing design for the university?
Liz Mosley:
yeah, exactly, they had, so their communications team had a whole design department, so I was part of the design department, so it was Yeah, it was really varied, which I really loved, but it was always working for the same brand. And so basically I set up my own stationery business, a bit of a hobby business where I could design whatever I wanted that wasn't for a client.
And if people liked it, then they would buy it. And that catapulted me into I guess the world of creative small businesses, creative makers, and I used to go and do markets in London at the weekend and it was an amazing community to be part of and eventually when I had kids I decided I wouldn't go back to my full time job and I would set up on my own and I actually started doing my freelance work before kids because small businesses started asking me if I could do branding for them.
And I got a real taste for it really loved it loved that sort of community in that group of people. And yeah started designing branding. So I almost have two arms to my own business now, which was designing branding for small businesses and then also designing my own stationery and selling that. And after my second child was born I got to the point where I was like, I, if I want to make either of these businesses a success, I need to go all in.
So I either needed to go all in on like wholesale with the stationery business, or I needed to go all in on the branding for small businesses. And that is what the route I decided to go down. So I shut my stationery business, went all in on the services side of my business. And I'm so glad I did. It was definitely the best decision.
I absolutely love it. I've been focusing on the branding, like the designing, branding small businesses for about seven years now and Yeah it's my true love. I love it.
Christine Gritmon:
I love that we've been on parallel paths. I also left a day job to do something more creative after having my first child and actually started my own business properly after my second child. It's really funny how they make you prioritize. They make you realize if I'm going to be putting my energy towards something besides them. It should be something that's really worth it.
Liz Mosley:
I think that's so true and I think it's interesting hearing other people because sometimes I feel like I've done my career a bit backwards and I feel like having kids actually made me Become more ambitious and want to build my own thing, but I think like you say that's such a that's such a good way of explaining it Is that actually if i'm going to spend my time and energy on something aside from my kids?
I want it to be something, you know I want to build something for me and something that's going to benefit them as well. And yeah, I mean I would really struggle, I think, to go back to working for someone else now because I've really got a taste for the self employed life which always makes me laugh because that was never a goal of mine.
A lot of my friends when we came out of art college and finished university had, dreams of setting up their own agencies or working for themselves and that was never an aspiration of mine. But yeah, having kids really changed that for me.
Christine Gritmon:
Absolutely. And a lot of times these things and these places you're meant to be, they find you when you're open to it, which is really lovely. So to back up a little into your story, so you had a stationary business. And I'm going to make a leap here and guess that the reason other creative businesses wanted you to help with your branding is because your own branding was on point.
I'd like to hear about how you built that brand. I know it's not something you're working on anymore but I'd imagine that was a moment for you in terms of your branding journey for helping brand others. So tell me about the process of branding your stationary brand. What was it called? First of all?
[00:07:09] What has it been like for Liz to brand herself?
Liz Mosley:
It all came under my name. So I have always built my brand as a personal brand. So it was called Liz Mosley Design, which is what my business still is called now. So I've always kept it under the same thing. And actually, I think, I am, I'm super critical of my own brand. And I think often There's a lot of, do as I say, not as I do, because I think there's a lot of areas in my personal brand that I could improve.
But I think one of the interesting things for me when it's come to branding myself, and I think this is something that is quite unique to creatives is I think often I've worked with like lots of illustrators, especially like through my courses and things like that illustrators, artists who want to think more about their branding.
And I think one of the struggles is like knowing whether to put your business under your name or whether to give it a different name. And I think that for creatives often coming under their name can work really well because what they're selling is their unique style and their work. And how their like creative work looks is such a big part of their brand.
So it's always been under my name. which I think when I look back, I'm like that was maybe that was a bit boring, but actually I think it's worked really well for me now. Because the personal brand has always been there. So it's been easier to grow on that as my business has changed.
Christine Gritmon:
And I'm sure it also helped with the pivot, because now you've run two businesses under the same name, essentially. And we will get to the pivot in a bit, because I am curious about how you navigated that. But let's talk about how you branded Liz Mosley Designs when it was straight up a stationary company, and then how others came to you from there.
[00:09:06] How did you brand Liz Mosley Designs when it was a stationary company
Liz Mosley:
Yeah one of, so one of the things I think is quite interesting is I think if you are a designer or an illustrator or a painter, I actually think there's different challenges for you with your visual branding because I think often your work needs to take centre stage and your, visual branding then needs to almost take a bit of a step back and be there to enhance and support it, but not distract from it.
And I think this is something that like a lot of creatives struggle with because I think often when you see businesses, rebranding or launching like rebranding new branding, there's a real story with the actual how the brand looks and there's a concept and there's all of this stuff that goes around it. But I think for creatives often that isn't necessarily the route that they should go down because I think their work needs to take center stage I think it's a really tricky balance.
And so I feel like for mine actually, it was more about the products that I was selling than how the brand looked so I have always gone for, I mean a big influence of my work has always been hand drawn elements and almost a bit of a, not lo fi because it was never lo fi, but I've always loved the experimentation of making marks by hand, scanning them in, using those elements in design.
And so my personal brand always had that sort of style, that hand drawn style, which was also reflected in the products that I was designing as well. And so I think in that sense, those things have always tied together and then that visual has flowed through to my brand now, even though it's a bit slicker and it's a bit cleaner now, I would say.
There's still that nod to the hand drawn. So my logo is basically pretty much my signature, it's like a handwritten version of my name. And it's not going to win any awards and it's not got any sort of magical secret concept behind it, but at the same time, it's very personal, it's, I think it's like warm and welcoming and friendly, and yeah, that's the sort of route that I've gone down.
Christine Gritmon:
I love your point about how for creatives, the brand needs to not be so structured. That it's the thing before the creations and the art, because the art needs to be able to have, you know, different collections and go in different directions. It needs to be flexible. So that is, is certainly a really good point.
Being on brand should not stifle your creativity in a creative brand. But to that end, I've worked with creatives before and, artists and makers and things like that. One thing I've seen some of them struggle with is the idea of being a brand, simply because it's from a passion and it's so personal and even if they have made a business out of it, there's often even a bit of conflict there about ...
Liz Mosley:
Yeah, I think that's such a good point, and I think I've definitely noticed that teaching workshops and teaching about branding, that has been a huge barrier for a lot of creatives. And I definitely used to feel this as well, like early on in my career. Like I think there's almost this negative connotation around brand.
And I think a lot of creatives see it as something really corporate and something, that is exclusively for huge corporations. Like the sort of businesses that they wouldn't want to identify with, or they wouldn't want to put themselves in the same class with, and I do think that is a real mental block for a lot of creatives and such an interesting point.
But I think it's one of those things that it's so important that we work through mentally and we get through that barrier because actually I think it's really hard to take your business seriously and to make it what it could be, you know, like to turn it into something really successful that's going to work for you, unless you shift your mindset and start thinking of it as a business and as a brand and thinking Of yourself as a personal brand and I think that has got easier now that we talk about personal brands because I think the idea of Having a personal brand as a creative is more palatable than the idea of having say a corporate or a you know like more business focused brand. So I think that sort of has been a helpful mental shift for creatives for sure But I do think that there is a lot of like mindset stuff that needs to happen to move past that point of hobby business or I think there's still leftovers, you know of this narrative that creatives tell themselves that you know That they can't make good money and that they're a struggling artist, I think a lot of damage has been done with that kind of like narrative that has gone through in the past and it's definitely changing and I think one of the things that I love about social media is that We now get to see and watch creative businesses one person, creative businesses, personal brands, like really grow and flourish and become extremely successful.
And I think it's really important that we can see that so that people know what's possible. But yeah, I think that's such a good point because there is a mindset shift that needs to happen so that we can make strategic decisions and we can make good decisions based on how we are going to grow our brands, whether that's a personal one or not.
Christine Gritmon:
Now to that end about creatives growing their brands as you said before, for a creative, their brand, it is very personal and they are a creative person. So for a creative person to hire an outside creative to help them with their creativity I imagine that's a very specific way of working and that working with creatives is probably a little bit different from people working with clients who are more businessy focused as opposed to creative person, first person. So I'd love to hear from you, Liz, how it's different working with a fellow creative on the creative elements of their brand. Do they tend to have more input? Do they tend to be more worried? Like how does that work? And how does it differ?
[00:15:30] How it's different working with a fellow creative on the creative elements of their brand?
Liz Mosley:
Yeah, I think that's a really good point. I think there are some differences and I think there are some pros and cons. I think one of the good things about working with creatives is that they are often able to express an idea and a vision Like a creative vision that they have because they are used to using that language and they are used to explaining themselves creatively.
So I think that is a plus point. I've definitely worked with clients in the past that have known that something is not exactly how they want it to be, but haven't been able to I guess analyze or assess why and then be able to verbalize that and so I think something You know a lot of creatives if especially if they've been to art college, you know that you get trained you get given those tools like how do you explain your work?
How do you break it down? How do you analyze it? So that's helpful I think one of the things that is particularly difficult for creatives is obviously They have a lot of creative skill and ability. They can imagine something in their mind and then they can turn that into something. That doesn't necessarily mean that they have the tools that they need to create branding. But it does mean that I think for them It's a bit scary the thought of giving that to someone else to do.
There's a couple of ways that I've tackled this. One is that my process as a branding designer is very collaborative. So I make sure that there's a lot of rounds of feedback and there's lots of options. The way I create and present work allows for them to analyze and compare things and give me feedback and we. Work together then to get the design to what they want it to be But also that is a big part of why I created a course which is basically called design your own branding
And there was like a few motivations for doing this. I think Probably some people in the design industry Would frown on this as an idea, but I do think that there are a lot of creative practitioners who don't want to lose the sort of control of that creative process and they want to create their own branding.
They just don't necessarily have the process or the tools that they need to do it. And so then I can guide them through that process and be there to support them and help them and give them advice and give them technical advice as well. If they maybe don't know how to use the tools, but they're still then in control of the creative process.
So I've gone down two different routes. Refined my process to make it work well for other creatives, but also taught courses so that they can actually retain control of that creative process.
Christine Gritmon:
What are some of the elements that creatives in particular really need to have in their branding? And does it differ from how another brand might? I mean, to your point earlier, with creatives, the work has to come first. The brand can't really be the thing that's in the front there. So what are considerations when coming up with branding for a creative?
[00:18:42] What are the elements that creatives need to have in their branding?
Liz Mosley:
So I think they really need to think of how the visuals of their brand are going to work alongside their actual work. And I think a big part where we see this, like one of the first things that we notice about brands, just because of how our brains work as humans, one of the first things we notice is the color.
And it's very subconscious. And I think One of the challenges for creative businesses is often their work has a lot of color in it. And so they need branding that is going to be flexible enough to like exactly how you mentioned earlier, like it needs to be something that's going to work with different collections.
It's going to work as their, as their sort of creative practice and their work evolves and changes over time. And so I think that is something. to consider.
And I often think that branding for creatives needs to be on the simpler side rather than the sort of more complex side. And I've seen, there's lots of different examples and there's never one size fits all, but like I've seen some instances where, you'll have an illustrator who has really bright, vibrant, creative work, and actually the best option for them from a branding perspective is to actually keep their Brand like and how it looks almost like monochrome and simple so that it is a nice contrast to then their bright vibrant work and then it's not clashing with the colors and like their work then take center stage.
And so I think that's what always needs to be thought about is how can the branding support and elevate the work. Instead of distract from the work. And I think if you start to get into having quite a complex color palette and then, maybe the tones don't go with the sort of illustrative style or the products or, whatever it is that you're selling.
I think that's where, you can get into trouble and I think one of the important things is creating visual branding that is going to grow with your business because I think another struggle that creators can particularly have and I definitely feel this so keenly as a designer is I love all different types of style of design I enjoy different trends.
I enjoy different Like feels of designs and so the temptation can be to want to change my branding all the time You know as I see a new really beautiful font and I'm like, oh I wish that was part of my branding or there's you know I want to add in a new color and that's not to say that your brand can't change over time.
It absolutely can But there is definitely a breakdown of trust if you are rebranding and changing the look of your brand all of the time. And so I think when it comes to creatives, having something that's on the simpler side, but that allows room for your creative practice to grow without you having to change the look and feel of your brand all the time is really important.
But as well, I think like the question that I always come back to, and I'm sure that this is similar for the work that you do with brands is Really thinking about how they want people to feel when they interact with their branding because I think so much of design is expressing a feeling through the way something looks.
And I think that's definitely the case for branding is, how do you get across that feeling and how do you use visuals to help people feel a particular way? And I think coming back to that question as you think about how you want your brand to look is really helpful.
Christine Gritmon:
So to that end, you took your brand, Liz Mosley Designs, as a stationary designer, and you had a brand transition into being a designer for brands, a designer of brands, a brand designer. So how did you navigate that transition, and how did your brand change, if at all, and how did you express the change?
I love stories of brand transitions, because that's, to me, One of the best things about a personal brand is that you can change what it means and what it does and what it stands for because it's still you.
So what did you change? What did you keep the same? And how did you get the message out there that you were now something else?
[00:23:04] The story of Liz's brand transition
Liz Mosley:
Yeah, it's interesting because, I think and this is actually something that we chatted about when you were on my podcast which I think was really a really helpful point, which is that if your brand values remain the same which they usually do because especially as you know If you're a one person business your brand values are often very closely tied to your personal values But it just means that your brand and your business can pivot and change, but those values underpin everything that you do and they stay the same.
And so I think those aspects of my business have really stayed consistent. Despite my business changing. It was like a slow transition, I would say. I think I started talking more about branding in general, and obviously, stopped talking so much about the products.
And I think I just took people along on that journey with me, particularly through social media. I think there will definitely be people who are following me and were more interested in the product sides of my business than the services side. And I think we get so worried about people not, like unfollowing us or not being interested in our business anymore.
And I actually think that having the attitude of, actually it's fine for you to move on because my brand isn't right for you anymore or isn't of interest to you anymore. And To just have a sort of spirit of like happily sending those people off on their journey and, it being okay that they're not into my business anymore.
I think one of the things that I've been talking a lot about recently, and I know you've heard me talk about this at a conference, is this idea of rejection. And that actually we need certain people to reject us because our brand isn't the right fit for them. And so I think, being okay with that.
And being okay with people moving on and then attracting the right people for my business definitely helped as I transitioned.
And I think just over time and this has definitely been like a work in progress and a journey for me. It's just getting clearer on my message and clearer on my sort of content pillars and what I talk about and what I communicate about as my brand and it's so interesting to me because seven years ago You know I was talking I just launched my best selling project for my, product based business.
And now, most people that follow me don't even know that I had a stationary business. So over time, that really has changed. I think one of the things that made it easier for me is that I have ne And this isn't necessarily good advice, but I have never really niched down my content on Instagram. Because I wanted to be able to just talk about my creativity and my practice in general.
And I think actually when it came to pivoting, my brand and what I was doing that actually made things easier for me because people were already used to me talking about, yeah, my products, but also just creativity in general and what I was working on and what I was enjoying. And so that made actually meant that there wasn't so big a change.
Yes. I stopped talking about the products as much, but I was still talking about similar concepts like there was similar. content themes that had always been running through my content and that made things easier for me. And I think probably, that comes back to what we've talked about before is having those sort of brand values fairly like clear in my mind.
And so those threads remained consistent even when the look and feel of my brand changed.
Christine Gritmon:
To that end, as you mentioned, you have always talked about branding in your content. It's always been a focus. And you've brought people along with you as you go. And that brings us to a great example of that, which is your podcast, building your brand. So how did that come about and what have been some of your key learnings in the process of doing the podcast?
Because I know for me doing Let's Talk About Brand, the best part has been that I get to learn amazing things from great people and make content out of it. So Liz, I'd love to hear your experience with the branding podcast.
How did you start building your brand and why did you start it and what's the journey been like?
[00:27:30] How has Liz's podcast fit into her brand?
Liz Mosley:
So one of my values is definitely generosity. And I think it fit that. Starting a podcast really fitted in with that, as I mentioned, my target audience is small businesses and often, one of the things I've always been really aware of is that often people who are like running a business by themselves don't necessarily have the budget to spend thousands of pounds on their visual branding early on in their business and, maybe that's something that comes further down the line.
But I always felt really passionately about supporting those businesses, even if they weren't in a position to pay me to do their branding for them. So the podcast was a big part of that and how I could support that particular group of people, because I knew that I could create this sort of free content, but that genuinely had like helpful tips and advice that they could implement. I was quite reluctant about starting a podcast mainly because I started just over two and a half years ago now, so it was in the midst of the pandemic and it really felt like everybody was starting a podcast and I'm a bit petty I think sometimes where I'm like if everyone else is doing something then it makes me not want to do it but I was chatting to a friend of mine who's a podcast editor and she was like I really think that you would enjoy it, I think you should give it a go and we actually did a skill swap and so she needed branding and was my ideal kind of Client and I really wanted to give podcasting a go and so we did a skill swap and I did her branding and she edited My podcast for me and that's how I got started and It's honestly been one of the best things that i've done for my business, but it's been the One of the best things that I could have done for growing my brand and my sort of reputation as a branding designer. And I think yeah similarly to you I Get to learn so much from the people that I interview which is amazing that one of the sort of side effects that I hadn't really consider is how it's grown my network and we Like I was gonna sit here and chat for I don't know 30 minutes to an hour and actually you get to know people Really well when you talk to them in that kind of way And so I have built up friendships and relationships with the people that have been on my podcast I've kept in touch with them.
I've met them in person, you know all these different things and yeah, it's really grown, it's grown my network in a way that I hadn't really imagined. And it's just got me on the radar of people that I wouldn't have expected to. I would credit my podcast with my work with Adobe. I've had an ongoing relationship doing work for them for the last sort of nearly two years now which has been amazing and again really fits in with my brand values and Supporting small businesses and so I feel like I've got all these different strands the podcast of which is one That really support my values for my brand But also, it's great for Raising my profile as well.
And yeah, it's just been such an incredible experience and I think has genuinely helped the target audience that I want to help because I have, yeah I'm really fortunate. I get lovely messages from listeners, who are like, Oh, I've just starting out my business and your podcast has been so helpful.
And, this episode really helped me with X, Y, Z. And. That's just an amazing feeling that I can create this free resource that helps the exact sort of target audience that I want to support.
Christine Gritmon:
And there goes that. Generosity is brand value. You have certainly been very generous with us here today, Liz. Thank you so much for this conversation. Please let the people at home know where they can find you, why they should find you, and what they will find there.
[00:31:20] Connect with Liz Mosley
Liz Mosley:
Sure. You can definitely come and check out my, if, if you're listening to this podcast, let's talk about brand. And I think you will enjoy mine as well called building your brand. And it's all about branding and marketing. You can find me on social media at Liz M Mosley, where I share lots of tips and Ideas and thoughts about branding and how you can improve your branding.
And you can also find me on my website, which is Liz Mosley design, where you can find out about the services that I offer and yeah the sort of different packages that I have available. If you're interested in working with me.
Christine Gritmon:
Awesome. Thank you so much for being here, Liz.
Liz Mosley:
Oh, thanks for having me. It's really fun chatting to you.
Christine Gritmon:
And thank you for being here for Let's Talk About Brand. Whether you are listening to it on your podcast player of choice, or you're here on YouTube joining us for the video podcast, either way, please be sure to subscribe so you don't miss a single weekly episode.
And I will be back next week with another very smart guest expert talking about another eleme
