S4 Ep11: Let’s Talk About Branding for Creatives with Liz Mosley

This week I’m excited to talk to fellow brand designer, Liz Mosley!

Liz was originally a stationary designer before recognizing her knack for branding creatives. We’re going to talk about how she first became an entrepreneur with her stationary business and how she ultimately transitioned into brand design. She’s going to share with us important considerations when branding for creatives because it is a bit different from other types of personal branding.

We are also going to talk about the evolution of Liz's own personal brand, and we’re going to get to the things that she has learned from her own podcast, Building Your Brand.

Tune in as we talk about: 

[00:00] Welcome Liz Mosley!
[02:26] How did Liz come to focus on branding?
[07:09] What has it been like for Liz to brand herself?
[09:06] How did you brand Liz Mosley Designs when it was a stationary company
[15:30] How it's different working with a fellow creative on the creative elements of their brand? 
[18:42] What are the elements that creatives need to have in their branding? 
[23:04] The story of Liz's brand transition
[27:30] How has Liz's podcast fit into her brand?
[31:20] Connect with Liz Mosley

Contact Liz Mosley
Podcast: Building Your Brand - https://www.lizmosley.net/podcast
Website: Liz Mosley Design - https://www.lizmosley.net/
Social Media: at LizMMosley

• Read Transcript Here

  Christine Gritmon:

  Hello and welcome to Let's Talk About Brand. I'm your host, Christine Gritmon, and I'm coming at you every single week on both the podcast and the video podcast on YouTube, talking to a different guest expert every single week about personal branding. This week's guest, Liz Mosley, actually does the same thing.

  I was on her podcast, Building Your Brand, a few weeks back. We were originally going to do like a joint episode, but I'm really glad we didn't because this meant that we got two amazing conversations that went in slightly different directions, which is always gold. So I'm so happy I got another opportunity to chat with Liz.

  Liz is, of course, a graphic designer. Liz mostly designs. And she originally, was a stationary designer before recognizing, or rather before other creatives, really, recognized her knack for branding. And they needed her to help her brand them. So Liz designs for all sorts of brands, but she especially has heart for designing for fellow creatives.

  And we're going to dig into that, how she got there. What's important in branding for creatives because it is a bit different from branding, like a consumer brand, like Coke or Nike or something. Branding as an artist, as a creative, as a maker is a very specific thing, and it's something that Liz understands really well, which helps her in her work.

  So we're going to talk about how she came to that, all the stuff that goes into branding a creative, how it's different from working with other people. We're going to talk about the evolution of Liz's own personal brand, of course. And then we're, of course, going to get to the things that she has learned from her own podcast, Building Your Brand.

  All right, so without any further ado, let's talk about brand with the host of Building Your brand builder Liz Mosley. Come on down.

  Liz Mosley:

  Love it. Thanks for having me.

  Christine Gritmon:

  Thanks for being here. Now, I was on your podcast recently, and so now you're on mine, and we've been at the same events and all of that. And of course. One word in particular attracted me, obviously, brand! Yay, brand! Love branding people. So I would love to hear just a little bit of kind of background from you as to how you got into branding.

  How branding became your brand. How that really became your thing to focus on.

  [00:02:26] How did Liz come to focus on branding?

  Liz Mosley:

  Yeah, sure. I guess I come to it from a bit more of the design perspective than you do, but basically I studied graphic design at university, it's always been my thing, I've absolutely loved it. I'm probably one of the rare people who are actually working in the field that they studied in because I feel like amongst my friends and my peers now that is becoming, like we all have a lot more varied and interesting careers, I think, where people move around a bit.

  But yeah, so I've been working in design for over 15 years. And basically, I spent a long time working in house at a university. And while I was there, I really loved working there, but obviously was working for the same brand all the time, design wise, and

  Christine Gritmon:

  just to clarify, do you mean like literally doing design for the university?

  Liz Mosley:

  yeah, exactly, they had, so their communications team had a whole design department, so I was part of the design department, so it was Yeah, it was really varied, which I really loved, but it was always working for the same brand. And so basically I set up my own stationery business, a bit of a hobby business where I could design whatever I wanted that wasn't for a client.

  And if people liked it, then they would buy it. And that catapulted me into I guess the world of creative small businesses, creative makers, and I used to go and do markets in London at the weekend and it was an amazing community to be part of and eventually when I had kids I decided I wouldn't go back to my full time job and I would set up on my own and I actually started doing my freelance work before kids because small businesses started asking me if I could do branding for them.

  And I got a real taste for it really loved it loved that sort of community in that group of people. And yeah started designing branding. So I almost have two arms to my own business now, which was designing branding for small businesses and then also designing my own stationery and selling that. And after my second child was born I got to the point where I was like, I, if I want to make either of these businesses a success, I need to go all in.

  So I either needed to go all in on like wholesale with the stationery business, or I needed to go all in on the branding for small businesses. And that is what the route I decided to go down. So I shut my stationery business, went all in on the services side of my business. And I'm so glad I did. It was definitely the best decision.

  I absolutely love it. I've been focusing on the branding, like the designing, branding small businesses for about seven years now and Yeah it's my true love. I love it.

  Christine Gritmon:

  I love that we've been on parallel paths. I also left a day job to do something more creative after having my first child and actually started my own business properly after my second child. It's really funny how they make you prioritize. They make you realize if I'm going to be putting my energy towards something besides them. It should be something that's really worth it.

  Liz Mosley:

  I think that's so true and I think it's interesting hearing other people because sometimes I feel like I've done my career a bit backwards and I feel like having kids actually made me Become more ambitious and want to build my own thing, but I think like you say that's such a that's such a good way of explaining it Is that actually if i'm going to spend my time and energy on something aside from my kids?

  I want it to be something, you know I want to build something for me and something that's going to benefit them as well. And yeah, I mean I would really struggle, I think, to go back to working for someone else now because I've really got a taste for the self employed life which always makes me laugh because that was never a goal of mine.

  A lot of my friends when we came out of art college and finished university had, dreams of setting up their own agencies or working for themselves and that was never an aspiration of mine. But yeah, having kids really changed that for me.

  Christine Gritmon:

  Absolutely. And a lot of times these things and these places you're meant to be, they find you when you're open to it, which is really lovely. So to back up a little into your story, so you had a stationary business. And I'm going to make a leap here and guess that the reason other creative businesses wanted you to help with your branding is because your own branding was on point.

  I'd like to hear about how you built that brand. I know it's not something you're working on anymore but I'd imagine that was a moment for you in terms of your branding journey for helping brand others. So tell me about the process of branding your stationary brand. What was it called? First of all?

  [00:07:09] What has it been like for Liz to brand herself?

  Liz Mosley:

  It all came under my name. So I have always built my brand as a personal brand. So it was called Liz Mosley Design, which is what my business still is called now. So I've always kept it under the same thing. And actually, I think, I am, I'm super critical of my own brand. And I think often There's a lot of, do as I say, not as I do, because I think there's a lot of areas in my personal brand that I could improve.

  But I think one of the interesting things for me when it's come to branding myself, and I think this is something that is quite unique to creatives is I think often I've worked with like lots of illustrators, especially like through my courses and things like that illustrators, artists who want to think more about their branding.

  And I think one of the struggles is like knowing whether to put your business under your name or whether to give it a different name. And I think that for creatives often coming under their name can work really well because what they're selling is their unique style and their work. And how their like creative work looks is such a big part of their brand.

  So it's always been under my name. which I think when I look back, I'm like that was maybe that was a bit boring, but actually I think it's worked really well for me now. Because the personal brand has always been there. So it's been easier to grow on that as my business has changed.

  Christine Gritmon:

  And I'm sure it also helped with the pivot, because now you've run two businesses under the same name, essentially. And we will get to the pivot in a bit, because I am curious about how you navigated that. But let's talk about how you branded Liz Mosley Designs when it was straight up a stationary company, and then how others came to you from there.

  [00:09:06] How did you brand Liz Mosley Designs when it was a stationary company

  Liz Mosley:

  Yeah one of, so one of the things I think is quite interesting is I think if you are a designer or an illustrator or a painter, I actually think there's different challenges for you with your visual branding because I think often your work needs to take centre stage and your, visual branding then needs to almost take a bit of a step back and be there to enhance and support it, but not distract from it.

  And I think this is something that like a lot of creatives struggle with because I think often when you see businesses, rebranding or launching like rebranding new branding, there's a real story with the actual how the brand looks and there's a concept and there's all of this stuff that goes around it. But I think for creatives often that isn't necessarily the route that they should go down because I think their work needs to take center stage I think it's a really tricky balance.

  And so I feel like for mine actually, it was more about the products that I was selling than how the brand looked so I have always gone for, I mean a big influence of my work has always been hand drawn elements and almost a bit of a, not lo fi because it was never lo fi, but I've always loved the experimentation of making marks by hand, scanning them in, using those elements in design.

  And so my personal brand always had that sort of style, that hand drawn style, which was also reflected in the products that I was designing as well. And so I think in that sense, those things have always tied together and then that visual has flowed through to my brand now, even though it's a bit slicker and it's a bit cleaner now, I would say.

  There's still that nod to the hand drawn. So my logo is basically pretty much my signature, it's like a handwritten version of my name. And it's not going to win any awards and it's not got any sort of magical secret concept behind it, but at the same time, it's very personal, it's, I think it's like warm and welcoming and friendly, and yeah, that's the sort of route that I've gone down.

  Christine Gritmon:

  I love your point about how for creatives, the brand needs to not be so structured. That it's the thing before the creations and the art, because the art needs to be able to have, you know, different collections and go in different directions. It needs to be flexible. So that is, is certainly a really good point.

  Being on brand should not stifle your creativity in a creative brand. But to that end, I've worked with creatives before and, artists and makers and things like that. One thing I've seen some of them struggle with is the idea of being a brand, simply because it's from a passion and it's so personal and even if they have made a business out of it, there's often even a bit of conflict there about ...

  Liz Mosley:

  Yeah, I think that's such a good point, and I think I've definitely noticed that teaching workshops and teaching about branding, that has been a huge barrier for a lot of creatives. And I definitely used to feel this as well, like early on in my career. Like I think there's almost this negative connotation around brand.

  And I think a lot of creatives see it as something really corporate and something, that is exclusively for huge corporations. Like the sort of businesses that they wouldn't want to identify with, or they wouldn't want to put themselves in the same class with, and I do think that is a real mental block for a lot of creatives and such an interesting point.

  But I think it's one of those things that it's so important that we work through mentally and we get through that barrier because actually I think it's really hard to take your business seriously and to make it what it could be, you know, like to turn it into something really successful that's going to work for you, unless you shift your mindset and start thinking of it as a business and as a brand and thinking Of yourself as a personal brand and I think that has got easier now that we talk about personal brands because I think the idea of Having a personal brand as a creative is more palatable than the idea of having say a corporate or a you know like more business focused brand. So I think that sort of has been a helpful mental shift for creatives for sure But I do think that there is a lot of like mindset stuff that needs to happen to move past that point of hobby business or I think there's still leftovers, you know of this narrative that creatives tell themselves that you know That they can't make good money and that they're a struggling artist, I think a lot of damage has been done with that kind of like narrative that has gone through in the past and it's definitely changing and I think one of the things that I love about social media is that We now get to see and watch creative businesses one person, creative businesses, personal brands, like really grow and flourish and become extremely successful.

  And I think it's really important that we can see that so that people know what's possible. But yeah, I think that's such a good point because there is a mindset shift that needs to happen so that we can make strategic decisions and we can make good decisions based on how we are going to grow our brands, whether that's a personal one or not.

  Christine Gritmon:

  Now to that end about creatives growing their brands as you said before, for a creative, their brand, it is very personal and they are a creative person. So for a creative person to hire an outside creative to help them with their creativity I imagine that's a very specific way of working and that working with creatives is probably a little bit different from people working with clients who are more businessy focused as opposed to creative person, first person. So I'd love to hear from you, Liz, how it's different working with a fellow creative on the creative elements of their brand. Do they tend to have more input? Do they tend to be more worried? Like how does that work? And how does it differ?

  [00:15:30] How it's different working with a fellow creative on the creative elements of their brand?

  Liz Mosley:

  Yeah, I think that's a really good point. I think there are some differences and I think there are some pros and cons. I think one of the good things about working with creatives is that they are often able to express an idea and a vision Like a creative vision that they have because they are used to using that language and they are used to explaining themselves creatively.

  So I think that is a plus point. I've definitely worked with clients in the past that have known that something is not exactly how they want it to be, but haven't been able to I guess analyze or assess why and then be able to verbalize that and so I think something You know a lot of creatives if especially if they've been to art college, you know that you get trained you get given those tools like how do you explain your work?

  How do you break it down? How do you analyze it? So that's helpful I think one of the things that is particularly difficult for creatives is obviously They have a lot of creative skill and ability. They can imagine something in their mind and then they can turn that into something. That doesn't necessarily mean that they have the tools that they need to create branding. But it does mean that I think for them It's a bit scary the thought of giving that to someone else to do.

  There's a couple of ways that I've tackled this. One is that my process as a branding designer is very collaborative. So I make sure that there's a lot of rounds of feedback and there's lots of options. The way I create and present work allows for them to analyze and compare things and give me feedback and we. Work together then to get the design to what they want it to be But also that is a big part of why I created a course which is basically called design your own branding

  And there was like a few motivations for doing this. I think Probably some people in the design industry Would frown on this as an idea, but I do think that there are a lot of creative practitioners who don't want to lose the sort of control of that creative process and they want to create their own branding.

  They just don't necessarily have the process or the tools that they need to do it. And so then I can guide them through that process and be there to support them and help them and give them advice and give them technical advice as well. If they maybe don't know how to use the tools, but they're still then in control of the creative process.

  So I've gone down two different routes. Refined my process to make it work well for other creatives, but also taught courses so that they can actually retain control of that creative process.

  Christine Gritmon:

  What are some of the elements that creatives in particular really need to have in their branding? And does it differ from how another brand might? I mean, to your point earlier, with creatives, the work has to come first. The brand can't really be the thing that's in the front there. So what are considerations when coming up with branding for a creative?

  [00:18:42] What are the elements that creatives need to have in their branding?

  Liz Mosley:

  So I think they really need to think of how the visuals of their brand are going to work alongside their actual work. And I think a big part where we see this, like one of the first things that we notice about brands, just because of how our brains work as humans, one of the first things we notice is the color.

  And it's very subconscious. And I think One of the challenges for creative businesses is often their work has a lot of color in it. And so they need branding that is going to be flexible enough to like exactly how you mentioned earlier, like it needs to be something that's going to work with different collections.

  It's going to work as their, as their sort of creative practice and their work evolves and changes over time. And so I think that is something. to consider.

  And I often think that branding for creatives needs to be on the simpler side rather than the sort of more complex side. And I've seen, there's lots of different examples and there's never one size fits all, but like I've seen some instances where, you'll have an illustrator who has really bright, vibrant, creative work, and actually the best option for them from a branding perspective is to actually keep their Brand like and how it looks almost like monochrome and simple so that it is a nice contrast to then their bright vibrant work and then it's not clashing with the colors and like their work then take center stage.

  And so I think that's what always needs to be thought about is how can the branding support and elevate the work. Instead of distract from the work. And I think if you start to get into having quite a complex color palette and then, maybe the tones don't go with the sort of illustrative style or the products or, whatever it is that you're selling.

  I think that's where, you can get into trouble and I think one of the important things is creating visual branding that is going to grow with your business because I think another struggle that creators can particularly have and I definitely feel this so keenly as a designer is I love all different types of style of design I enjoy different trends.

  I enjoy different Like feels of designs and so the temptation can be to want to change my branding all the time You know as I see a new really beautiful font and I'm like, oh I wish that was part of my branding or there's you know I want to add in a new color and that's not to say that your brand can't change over time.

  It absolutely can But there is definitely a breakdown of trust if you are rebranding and changing the look of your brand all of the time. And so I think when it comes to creatives, having something that's on the simpler side, but that allows room for your creative practice to grow without you having to change the look and feel of your brand all the time is really important.

  But as well, I think like the question that I always come back to, and I'm sure that this is similar for the work that you do with brands is Really thinking about how they want people to feel when they interact with their branding because I think so much of design is expressing a feeling through the way something looks.

  And I think that's definitely the case for branding is, how do you get across that feeling and how do you use visuals to help people feel a particular way? And I think coming back to that question as you think about how you want your brand to look is really helpful.

  Christine Gritmon:

  So to that end, you took your brand, Liz Mosley Designs, as a stationary designer, and you had a brand transition into being a designer for brands, a designer of brands, a brand designer. So how did you navigate that transition, and how did your brand change, if at all, and how did you express the change?

  I love stories of brand transitions, because that's, to me, One of the best things about a personal brand is that you can change what it means and what it does and what it stands for because it's still you.

  So what did you change? What did you keep the same? And how did you get the message out there that you were now something else?

  [00:23:04] The story of Liz's brand transition

  Liz Mosley:

  Yeah, it's interesting because, I think and this is actually something that we chatted about when you were on my podcast which I think was really a really helpful point, which is that if your brand values remain the same which they usually do because especially as you know If you're a one person business your brand values are often very closely tied to your personal values But it just means that your brand and your business can pivot and change, but those values underpin everything that you do and they stay the same.

  And so I think those aspects of my business have really stayed consistent. Despite my business changing. It was like a slow transition, I would say. I think I started talking more about branding in general, and obviously, stopped talking so much about the products.

  And I think I just took people along on that journey with me, particularly through social media. I think there will definitely be people who are following me and were more interested in the product sides of my business than the services side. And I think we get so worried about people not, like unfollowing us or not being interested in our business anymore.

  And I actually think that having the attitude of, actually it's fine for you to move on because my brand isn't right for you anymore or isn't of interest to you anymore. And To just have a sort of spirit of like happily sending those people off on their journey and, it being okay that they're not into my business anymore.

  I think one of the things that I've been talking a lot about recently, and I know you've heard me talk about this at a conference, is this idea of rejection. And that actually we need certain people to reject us because our brand isn't the right fit for them. And so I think, being okay with that.

  And being okay with people moving on and then attracting the right people for my business definitely helped as I transitioned.

  And I think just over time and this has definitely been like a work in progress and a journey for me. It's just getting clearer on my message and clearer on my sort of content pillars and what I talk about and what I communicate about as my brand and it's so interesting to me because seven years ago You know I was talking I just launched my best selling project for my, product based business.

  And now, most people that follow me don't even know that I had a stationary business. So over time, that really has changed. I think one of the things that made it easier for me is that I have ne And this isn't necessarily good advice, but I have never really niched down my content on Instagram. Because I wanted to be able to just talk about my creativity and my practice in general.

  And I think actually when it came to pivoting, my brand and what I was doing that actually made things easier for me because people were already used to me talking about, yeah, my products, but also just creativity in general and what I was working on and what I was enjoying. And so that made actually meant that there wasn't so big a change.

  Yes. I stopped talking about the products as much, but I was still talking about similar concepts like there was similar. content themes that had always been running through my content and that made things easier for me. And I think probably, that comes back to what we've talked about before is having those sort of brand values fairly like clear in my mind.

  And so those threads remained consistent even when the look and feel of my brand changed.

  Christine Gritmon:

  To that end, as you mentioned, you have always talked about branding in your content. It's always been a focus. And you've brought people along with you as you go. And that brings us to a great example of that, which is your podcast, building your brand. So how did that come about and what have been some of your key learnings in the process of doing the podcast?

  Because I know for me doing Let's Talk About Brand, the best part has been that I get to learn amazing things from great people and make content out of it. So Liz, I'd love to hear your experience with the branding podcast.

  How did you start building your brand and why did you start it and what's the journey been like?

  [00:27:30] How has Liz's podcast fit into her brand?

  Liz Mosley:

  So one of my values is definitely generosity. And I think it fit that. Starting a podcast really fitted in with that, as I mentioned, my target audience is small businesses and often, one of the things I've always been really aware of is that often people who are like running a business by themselves don't necessarily have the budget to spend thousands of pounds on their visual branding early on in their business and, maybe that's something that comes further down the line.

  But I always felt really passionately about supporting those businesses, even if they weren't in a position to pay me to do their branding for them. So the podcast was a big part of that and how I could support that particular group of people, because I knew that I could create this sort of free content, but that genuinely had like helpful tips and advice that they could implement. I was quite reluctant about starting a podcast mainly because I started just over two and a half years ago now, so it was in the midst of the pandemic and it really felt like everybody was starting a podcast and I'm a bit petty I think sometimes where I'm like if everyone else is doing something then it makes me not want to do it but I was chatting to a friend of mine who's a podcast editor and she was like I really think that you would enjoy it, I think you should give it a go and we actually did a skill swap and so she needed branding and was my ideal kind of Client and I really wanted to give podcasting a go and so we did a skill swap and I did her branding and she edited My podcast for me and that's how I got started and It's honestly been one of the best things that i've done for my business, but it's been the One of the best things that I could have done for growing my brand and my sort of reputation as a branding designer. And I think yeah similarly to you I Get to learn so much from the people that I interview which is amazing that one of the sort of side effects that I hadn't really consider is how it's grown my network and we Like I was gonna sit here and chat for I don't know 30 minutes to an hour and actually you get to know people Really well when you talk to them in that kind of way And so I have built up friendships and relationships with the people that have been on my podcast I've kept in touch with them.

  I've met them in person, you know all these different things and yeah, it's really grown, it's grown my network in a way that I hadn't really imagined. And it's just got me on the radar of people that I wouldn't have expected to. I would credit my podcast with my work with Adobe. I've had an ongoing relationship doing work for them for the last sort of nearly two years now which has been amazing and again really fits in with my brand values and Supporting small businesses and so I feel like I've got all these different strands the podcast of which is one That really support my values for my brand But also, it's great for Raising my profile as well.

  And yeah, it's just been such an incredible experience and I think has genuinely helped the target audience that I want to help because I have, yeah I'm really fortunate. I get lovely messages from listeners, who are like, Oh, I've just starting out my business and your podcast has been so helpful.

  And, this episode really helped me with X, Y, Z. And. That's just an amazing feeling that I can create this free resource that helps the exact sort of target audience that I want to support.

  Christine Gritmon:

  And there goes that. Generosity is brand value. You have certainly been very generous with us here today, Liz. Thank you so much for this conversation. Please let the people at home know where they can find you, why they should find you, and what they will find there.

  [00:31:20] Connect with Liz Mosley

  Liz Mosley:

  Sure. You can definitely come and check out my, if, if you're listening to this podcast, let's talk about brand. And I think you will enjoy mine as well called building your brand. And it's all about branding and marketing. You can find me on social media at Liz M Mosley, where I share lots of tips and Ideas and thoughts about branding and how you can improve your branding.

  And you can also find me on my website, which is Liz Mosley design, where you can find out about the services that I offer and yeah the sort of different packages that I have available. If you're interested in working with me.

  Christine Gritmon:

  Awesome. Thank you so much for being here, Liz.

  Liz Mosley:

  Oh, thanks for having me. It's really fun chatting to you.

  Christine Gritmon:

  And thank you for being here for Let's Talk About Brand. Whether you are listening to it on your podcast player of choice, or you're here on YouTube joining us for the video podcast, either way, please be sure to subscribe so you don't miss a single weekly episode.

  And I will be back next week with another very smart guest expert talking about another eleme

S4 Ep10: Let’s Talk About a Personal Brand Coaching Session with Sarah Scott

While a personal brand is … well…personal. It isn’t something you should work on defining on your own.

But have you ever thought about working with personal brand coach? Do you wonder what it would be like? What would you talk about? What conclusions would you walk away with?

This episode is going to be a little bit different. In this episode, I’m going to give you a little taste of what I do with clients in my personal branding work. 

It's not like a whole session, but my brilliant podcast editor, Sarah Scott of Sarah Scott Studios, has said to me, “I think it might be interesting to see you do your thing on an episode.”

And so I've turned that right back around on her and said, “how about I do it with you?”

She of course agreed! 

So I'm very excited for today's conversation with Sarah about her personal brand. 

This is not nearly as thorough or as specific as I would do with an actual client, but I wanted to give you an episode that hopefully you could take some of this discussion back to yourself and use it to figure out some more of your own personal brand. 

Tune in as we talk about: 

[00:00] Welcome! This episode will be a little different!
[01:31] Introducing the Guest: Sarah Scott
[02:49] Sarah's Journey from Healthcare Consulting to Podcast Management
[06:41] The Importance of Niching in Business
[09:41] How Your Experiences Can Lead to Building Your Personal Branding
[12:50] The Power of the Personal Brand Coaching Pre-Work
[14:21] Digging into Past Experience for Your Personal Brand 
[23:30] Blending Skills to Define Your Personal Brand
[29:00] Building a Personal Brand
[32:33] One way Christine built her brand
[33:14] Choosing a platform for your brand
[35:49] Benefits of Establishing Your Brand
[38:34] The Power of Networking to Build Your Brand
[47:30] Defining Your Brand: The Struggle of Self-Representation
[51:42] Generous Curiosity: The Key to Successful Branding
[58:26] Where to Find Me: Connecting with Sarah Scott
[59:18] Wrapping Up: The Journey of Personal Branding

Contact Sarah Scott:

Website: Sarah Scott Studios
Linkedin: Sarah Scott

• Read Transcript Here

  [00:00:03] Welcome! This episode will be a little different!

  Christine Gritmon: Hello, and welcome to Let's Talk About Brands. I am your host, Christine Gritmon, and I'm normally coming at you every single week interviewing someone, a professional of some sort, ideally someone in marketing or branding, about different elements of branding, especially personal branding. This episode is going to be a little bit different.

  I'm really excited about this. This episode is actually going to give you a little taste of what I do with clients in my personal branding work. It's not like a whole session or anything, but my brilliant podcast editor, Sarah Scott of Sarah Scott Studios, she has said to me, I think it might be interesting to see you do your thing on an episode.

  And so I've turned that right back around on her and said, how about I do it with you? So I'm very excited for today's conversation with Sarah about her personal brand. Again, this is not nearly as thorough or as specific as I would do with an actual client, but I did want to give you a taste in a way that could be helpful to you as well.

  So with a real client, it would go much more in depth. It would be a lot more dealing with specifics, but I wanted to give you guys an episode that hopefully you could take some of this work, take some of these questions, take some of these discussions back to yourself and use yourself to do, to figure out some more of your own personal brand. All right, so without any further ado, let's bring her on.

  [00:01:31] Introducing the Guest: Sarah Scott

  Christine Gritmon: Sarah Scott, come on down.

  Sarah Scott: Yay. I got my own applause.

  Christine Gritmon: Yeah, it's funny because a lot of times guests are surprised by the applause, pleasantly, hopefully, but you hear it every week.

  Sarah Scott: I do. I do, but I

  Christine Gritmon: right?

  Sarah Scott: Yes,

  Christine Gritmon: feels good.

  Sarah Scott: does.

  Christine Gritmon: All right, Sarah, since you're our star this week, I of course know you and what you do, but let's start out by telling the good folks at home.

  Who are you and what do you do?

  Sarah Scott: All right. So my name is Sarah Scott. Hello, everybody. I am a podcast manager. So what I do is I have a portfolio of podcasts that I help to manage. So that comes down to things like editing and helping with distribution and content. also that the podcast host can have a lot of fun just. Recording their episodes, meeting with the people they want to meet with, and then not having to worry about all the follow up that comes from that.

  So that's in a nutshell what we do.

  Christine Gritmon: And that is so huge. most podcast producers, most anyone who creates content of any sort wishes there were more of them to split up some of that work because repurposing is everything, but repurposing is. tricky to get to. All right.

  [00:02:49] Sarah's Journey from Healthcare Consulting to Podcast Management

  Christine Gritmon: So I assume that you did not start your career as a podcast manager.

  I think, we're similar in ages. They didn't exist when we started our careers. So I'd love to hear how, you got into this line of work. How did you start being a podcast manager? And also how recent. Is that that's how you're, primarily defining yourself professionally?

  Sarah Scott: Okay. so yeah, no, not where we started and not. Where I expected to go at any point in time. So my background, I came from healthcare, actually healthcare consulting in the technology space. that was my bread and butter. I was a trainer. I love training software. Software is my, bread and butter, my very favorite thing in the entire world, I love geeking out over software because.

  It's, I don't know, I find technology fun, not overwhelming.

  Christine Gritmon: just to cla just to clarify, when you say healthcare consulting, you were specifically a tech consultant in the healthcare space, is that correct?

  Sarah Scott: and yeah, that's probably the easiest way to define it. So I worked on a proprietary software that was installed in hospitals. And so I spent most of my career traveling the country, teaching people how to install and use our software. on the one hand, it was a fantastic career. I love traveling. I got to go all over the country.

  got to see all kinds of things, meet all sorts of interesting people. I love being in front of people. So the idea of being in front of a classroom all the time was a lot of fun. but eventually that career came to an end and I, about five years ago, started my own business working as a social media consultant, and really that.

  Was born out of the work I did as a healthcare consultant. not at the time, not knowing the phrase digital marketing, but I spent a lot of time trying to engage our client base by doing monthly webinars or having a newsletter or, trying to figure out like, how do we repurpose this for sales content?

  And so I was doing a lot of the work without defining it the way that the market defines it. And so once I realized like this was actually a thing that people did in real life, I started working in that space. And so I started taking on some local clients, doing some social media stuff and things along those lines, but it never really stuck as a, I just wasn't gaining clients.

  I wasn't differentiating myself enough. And then one day, one of my clients, some of your podcast or some of your listeners might know her, Andrea of all, she came to me one day and says, you know what? I want to try a new thing. Have you ever done anything with podcasting? And I said, no, not besides listening.

  No, nothing. And she says, let's try this thing together. And I said, all right, let's go for it. And Just over a year ago, she launched the Late Starters Club and that became an obsession for me around really loving the process of creating these podcasts and hearing these conversations and helping people get their voice and their messages and their stories out there more.

  And it snowballed from there, went from Andrea to a mom podcast to you, to several others now that I've been bringing on board. And it's just been a lot of fun.

  Christine Gritmon: And it's catching on much better than, the social media thing did, which is interesting because it's part of what you do. When you were describing your career in social media, it sounded like One of the things that you enjoyed was the re was the content repurposing and how can we spin this out and all of that, and that's so much of what you do now.

  It's interesting that it caught on with podcasts specifically, like it needed that extra ingredient.

  Sarah Scott: Yeah.

  [00:06:41] The Importance of Niching in Business

  Sarah Scott: I heard somebody used the term the other day, double niching. she's I'm double niched and that's why it works so well. And it was funny cause I'm like, that's a really weird term, but technically I think that's what I've done too, is I've double niched. I've niched down to.

  Social like in a lot, in a sense, it's social media or content repurposing in the podcast space. And I think the reason it's caught on so is because podcasters understand the work that's being done. I think where I struggled with social media was. that when you would pitch social media creation, content management to a small business, they didn't understand the impact it would actually have to their business.

  They, it didn't make a lot of sense to them. How was it going to affect their bottom line? Oh, they never really saw anything happen before. So the investment was a lot harder for them to make with podcasters. They understand the investment, they know that there's more they wanted to do with this content that they aren't getting around to, that they want to be able to do bigger things and have that space to be able to do that.

  So the investment makes sense for them because they can see where that's going to go.

  Christine Gritmon: That's a really good point. That's actually pretty similar to my own journey, because I was doing social media for small businesses who didn't get social media. So they didn't understand it, they didn't work in it, they were like, Look, just, I'm at your mercy. But they didn't understand the investment as much as someone who maybe does social media or maybe works in digital marketing but has trouble marketing themselves.

  They understand that a little bit better. Speaking of marketing, oneself. So you have double niche down. So you are, so what are the two niches? Just to clarify. So podcasting and,

  Sarah Scott: guess you would say content creation.

  Christine Gritmon: alright,

  Sarah Scott: it's, more than just, it's not necessarily just social media though. That's a big portion of it. but it's also looking at like email content or looking at opt ins. Like I look at it all in a broader scope with a lot of my clients. It's this is the cornerstone pieces, this podcast, but then what else can we do with it? Can we create a blog post? Can we create that social content? Is that going to be a reel? Is that going to be a, is it going to be a carousel post? What else can we do? Where else can we share this? How else can we use this?

  So that the hour or so that you spent recording this content is then giving you so much more than you thought you could get from it.

  Christine Gritmon: Absolutely. So it's clear to hear that this lights you up, that you love that creative challenge of figuring out. And as you said, one of the things you love about podcasts is hearing the interviews and helping people get their voices out there. So that's clearly part of what lights you up about this work.

  [00:09:41] How Your Experiences Can Lead to Building Your Personal Branding

  Christine Gritmon: One thing that was very interesting to me that I didn't know before this conversation right here is in your previous career when you were talking about being a tech trainer for health care, two things you mentioned really loving that don't seem like they play into this career, which is that you loved traveling and that you loved being on stage.

  So I'd love to dig into that a little bit more, what you loved about those things. And if you've thought about making room for them in this career, or if that's just keeping it separate. Because you've heard me talk about this before. There's task based skills. So there's task based things like, I like repurposing content.

  But then there's the skills behind them, the stuff that you keep that's yours that you bring to the task, and that stuff is innately you and can be applied to numerous tasks. So in that case, that would be, you like amplifying other's stories, which is something that we share. So there's a difference between the task of Repurposing content versus the skill of amplifying people's stories, which is what really lights you up.

  two of those things that lit you up in the past job that aren't part of the current one, the travel and the getting up in front of people. Let's dive into that a little bit, because those don't seem like they're part of your current gig.

  Sarah Scott: So that's really interesting. So no travel is intentionally not part of this gig because of my family. So unlike you, I'm not nearly as brave to travel with my family. so the travel portion was taken out because of them. So young kids, crazy schedules. And so I've. Intentionally taken that out. I'm hoping it will come back in at some point.

  I'm not sure how at this moment in time, but I am hoping it will come back in some way, shape or form. And as for the 2nd piece, the stage piece. That is something I am hoping will come back in. I am, part of me is still working on the idea that I'm going to be launching my own podcast, hopefully in the new year.

  So that will give me, while it is not physical stage presence will still give me the practice of presenting. And I am hoping to start getting on stages again, as soon as I can find the right message. I think right now I'm still struggling with. What is that message that I want to be able to bring to a stage that can be used?

  Not just this whole general, Oh, Hey, use podcasts in your business. That seems to be a very broad message that a lot of people have shared over time that I've seen. I'd like to be able to change that into something a little bit different that I could bring. And I really have no idea what that's going to be, but it's.

  Definitely something a little bit more than that I think is where I want it to go. But I am hoping to be on stages again.

  Christine Gritmon: Absolutely. It seems like the question to answer there preemptively in the minds of people who are receiving your message is going to be, but why a podcast? And so that's something that makes sense to be trying to get to the bottom of.

  [00:12:50] The Power of the Personal Brand Coaching Pre-Work

  Christine Gritmon: All right, so I'm going to roll it back a little bit. I had given you some pre work and just so people are aware, when I work with clients, I give them very specific pre work.

  I really do, chunk it down to be very specific to their situation. But I gave you the super ultra mega version, the generic version, which, which you wonderful listeners can download for yourself. You can get that at Gritmon. com. Gritmon. com, G R I T M O N dot com slash P R E W O R K, Gritmon.

  com slash Prework. It's huge. this is not something that you need to feel the need to answer every question at all. Answer the ones that resonate with you. And I always say, the ones that are the trickiest to get into, sometimes that's where the gold is. So I'd love to hear from you, Sarah, as someone who looked through all these bajillion questions, what were some of the questions, if you can think of any, that really unlocked a particular, pathway of thinking that maybe you hadn't given thought to, or maybe not from that direction.

  Are there any in particular where you're just like, Oh, hold up. did you have any of those moments with particular questions at all?

  [00:14:21] Digging into Past Experience for Your Personal Brand

  Sarah Scott: Yeah. I love them with some of the ones that you had that were really reflective of me as a whole person, not just me as my business. So there were a few that you would ask around, like what are some of the things that you've. done or have done that have nothing to do with your business that you enjoy doing.

  And I, it was interesting. I, so I did it in two phases. I actually read it through the first day you gave it to me. I read through all of the questions, kind of high level, just to let them marinate a little bit and see what I thought about them. And then I sat down and then tried actually answering as many of them as I could. And so some of that stuff did stick with me around, what are the other things in my life that I've either ignored or I haven't done as much or lit me up in the past? And the

  Christine Gritmon: Or thought weren't relevant. I think that's the biggest thing, too. We're like, okay, I did, for me, I've talked about this before, my singing. I used to sing all the time, and I haven't incorporated that into things at all. And you sing, too. there's things like that where we think, yeah, but that has nothing to do with what I do for work.

  But anyway, it's an interesting pathway. sorry to interrupt. I'd love to hear a little bit more about your thoughts on that and where you went with it.

  Sarah Scott: and actually it's exactly where I was going with it was that, I was a singer for the longest time. I was professionally trained as an opera singer when I was a kid and. my poor mother investing all this money in my singing career that never became a career, not that she wanted it to be.

  But, and I don't do it anymore. I don't sing as much anymore besides like sing in the shower and, there's that, kind of went by. But with that also came a few other things that I didn't think about before that I have done over time as well, which were. I've been part of singing groups, choirs, theater, almost my whole life.

  the idea of being on stage or being part of productions has always been a light for me. Whether I was on stage or behind stage, I've been, I've been on the stage as an actor and a performer. I've been behind the scenes as a stage manager, director and things on those lines as well.

  And they always lit me up. being in those environments in that teamwork there, there is, if you've never worked in theater, there is something. Special about the group of people that come together and work on a production. And I miss that in a lot of ways. And that sort of answering those questions reminded me of that.

  But what it also reminded me of was that I have spent a lot of time in my life, coaching people unknowingly. Like I wouldn't say it was like a professional coaching thing, but it was. it comes down to, I've spent so much time teaching and speaking in front of people that I have worked with other people to make them better speakers, make them better trainers, make them better singers, sharing tips and tricks and helping them get over things.

  And I don't do that as much as I used to do. And I really used to love that a lot about some of my past and some of the things that I do. And it was interesting to go through that and realize Hey, between. My love of technology and my used to piece of being, a trainer and being on stages.

  I don't do as much of that anymore. And now I'm wondering why.

  Christine Gritmon: And the thing that's really interesting to hear you say that, so first of all, that connects back to what you said before lit you up when you were in healthcare tech. You loved training people. You loved being on stage and training people. And in my own work with you, as your client, you don't just repurpose my material.

  You constantly have strategic ideas to make it better. You are a podcast coach.

  Sarah Scott: that's interesting. Hadn't thought of that before.

  Christine Gritmon: Yeah! You're a podcast coach! Like, where could we go with that? Where would you feel like going with that? Because it's, really fascinating to me how those two pieces, what lit you up in your previous career, and where that went with things that you bring to the table that weren't work related. So where could you possibly see going with that?

  Let's explore that now, live. laughs

  Sarah Scott: Alright, so I started exploring this. And not even that long ago, so this is a really weird moment, in terms of where things are going. So my husband and I were going out to dinner this past weekend and we were talking about a variety of different things. And I said, I have in my mind when I start my podcast, and, the reason I haven't started, cause I struggle with what it's going to be about.

  But one of the things I had said is I have a guest I'd really like to interview. And I said, it's like a dream guest, like no way in. probably a hundred lifetimes I'd ever get this person on a podcast, but, and he asked me who, and I said, I would love to get Jimmy Fallon on. And my husband says, why him?

  And I said, for my podcasters, like one of the biggest things they have to focus on is storytelling, whether they're telling their own story or interviewing to somebody and pulling that story out of the interview. And I think it's an area that a lot of people could use more. Practice. They could use more tips on how do you do this?

  Cause you know, a lot of the podcasters I work with are interview based podcasters, a lot like you. And sometimes the interviews are great and they work easy and it's a fabulous story from start to finish, but other times it's really a pull to. Find the story and to keep control of the, interview. And I said, Jimmy Fallon does this every night.

  Now granted, I know he has got a team of people, but he still pulls it off in such a way where he sits there and he can pull this off and show what the world, Highlight the guest still makes himself funny and really demonstrates who he is through all of that. So there is a direction I think that I would love to be able to take at some point, which is really, as you put words to it, a podcast coach where I want to be able to coach.

  My podcasters, not just on how to reuse the content, but how do you become a better podcaster? How do you tell better stories? How do you become a better interviewer? your previous career was

  Christine Gritmon: I was a journalist. A lot of

  Sarah Scott: journalism,

  Christine Gritmon: from journalism.

  I'd love to, I'd love to point out one thing. You said how to tell a better story, but really, the skill with interviewing is how to get someone else to tell a better

  Sarah Scott: Right. And I don't, and we don't always think about that as a skill. I don't think, one of the things with podcasting, and there's a lot of areas of the digital space where it's like, Hey, of course, writing is another one. Hey, you can just slap together this thing and you can run off with it and make a million dollars and podcasting's got that same.

  Marketing verbiage that says, Oh, it's so super easy. Just turn on your camera or just turn on your mic and off you run. And yeah, you can start there, but just like with everything else, we've got to get better at it. We have to get better at telling our stories. We have to get. better at listening to what there is.

  and so many people go the interview route because interviews are perceived as being easier. You're not the one that has to carry the whole conversation. Or if you are doing a video, you're not staring at yourself on video, for 20 or 30 minutes or whatever that happens to be. And. So while in a sense, yes, it's a lot easier.

  I also see where it is also much more difficult because it does require a skill from the host of being able to do that level of interviewing. And I just don't know that it's something that they focus on as much is how do I improve that skill? How do I get better at pulling that out or helping that interviewee tell that tale?

  And one of the things I hear most often too is I don't get a lot of soundbites. And, it can be true depending on who you're interviewing. There may not be a lot of soundbites, but you also have to guide your guests to those soundbites. And again, I think it's all just a skill that needs to be developed, but it's not focused on in that way when I'm looking at like the podcast industry as a whole.

  Christine Gritmon: So that's interesting. I'm going to point out. One thing you said there that connects to something we identified earlier about you that lights you up, and also something that lights me up, so I'm bringing myself into this too. I would say create, creating a good interview, in addition to figuring out how to, inspire someone to tell a better story themselves, which has to do with tapping into their passions.

  My thing, My special sauce that I bring to everything is my enthusiasm for finding the magic in things. I do that, every day when I see a pretty leaf on the street, but I also, that's why I'm, that's why I'm able to bring stories out of people, because I'm fascinated by them. I think that everyone has that gold in there.

  [00:23:30] Blending Skills to Define Your Personal Brand

  Christine Gritmon: With you, I'd point out that doing an interview is creating live content. And having those moments in there where, you get those sound bites, that's almost, live creating the future repurposing. if you're creating the rich content with an eye towards the many micro content moments within, I think that could be a special skill for you.

  I think that, okay, so I want to talk to you about the podcast that you are going to start, but then I have a big audacious idea for you that I would love to see. But I'm not going to start there because I could be totally off track. So let's talk about this podcast that you intend to start. And by the way, you've been talking about this for a long time. So I, I absolutely know what that's like. those of us who are passionate about things, but at the same time we want it to be right, it can lead to a delay in starting. Of course, when you care, you delay. Even though you know from watching other people that the way to do it is to start. Be imperfect and get better.

  But, tell me about your podcast idea and the podcast that you plan to start at the moment. Podcast

  Sarah Scott: Okay. So at the moment, and I think I'm finally landing on the idea. Just the name hasn't stuck yet. So it's, so I got talked into doing the, being the podcaster who talks about podcasts to podcasters and. but the twist I want to do on it a little bit is a, I want to talk to podcasters specifically.

  I would like to spend more time talking with women because I don't feel like there's enough female voices in the mix of all of the chaos that is out there. I still feel like so much of what is done out there is a male dominated voice. Not that's the worst thing in the world. There's a lot of great men.

  but

  Christine Gritmon: PodcastBros are a thing. It's a cliche for a reason.

  Sarah Scott: I know, right? Like marketing bros and everything else. It's it's, guys, we love you, but women, we got to step it up and we don't, and it's scary. And I am a terrible and probably the perfect example of why we're not stepping it up. it's, I want to share the stories of women that I know that are in podcasting about their journey as podcasters.

  Why are they doing it? What are they doing? What are they? What have they found that was great? What have they tripped over? What, has it brought to them to be a podcaster? And I'm hoping that in the one sense, those stories will inspire more people to want to take to the stage because, one of the things with me, I understand, again, as a digital marketer.

  I've spent a lot of time understanding content and how important it is to our businesses and what we need to do. But I am not a writer, I am a talker. I have been a talker my whole life. And so podcasting offers this great ability to take my words, my spoken words that I'm far more comfortable with sharing and moving that into written word and into other pieces.

  So I want to be able to encourage other. Other women to do the same thing to get their voices heard to raise them to not sit behind and have all these amazing thoughts that nobody ever hears because we think other people are already doing it. So I want to be able to demonstrate that to. Everyone through all the amazing women I know that do it, and even the amazing women I have yet to meet that are doing it.

  And then the other side of that really is beyond just the guests. I want to be able to educate. I want to be able to show people how do I do the things that I do. I want to talk about, I want to take a very Pat Flynn approach to a lot of this as well in terms of The whole, I'm going to be be like in the weeds doing it myself and sharing that experience of, Hey, I tried this thing and this is what happened.

  Or, Hey, I want you to try this technique on your next interview. Try to do this a little bit differently or try to do that. So similar to some of the, content or things I would share with you guys as my podcast clients, I want to be able to share that more generically as well with other people who are interested in working with their own podcasts.

  Christine Gritmon: I didn't realize the female focus, of your plan and I love that. Of course, you've got a few great guests to start with.

  Sarah Scott: I have a lot of great guests to start with. And actually my, I have one exception, but for the exception of one and. No, he, see, I didn't say necessarily I would limit all my guests, but, and he would be on the educational side, not necessarily like the, learning, the, highlighting the podcast side.

  but I do all of my clients at the moment, all of my active clients, I'll say it that way, are all female. Every one of them is a female podcaster and it hasn't necessarily been. Entirely the intention going into it, but now that it is here and it is what I've been doing, I am so in for it. these women are all absolutely amazing.

  They have the best things to say and they need to be elevated and they need to be seen. And if I can be a small part of that for them. That's amazing.

  Christine Gritmon: You're triple niching, girl. I love it.

  Sarah Scott: See, I don't really, I guess I didn't think of the woman part as tripled as a part of a niche, but I suppose it is right. Cause

  Christine Gritmon: I love

  Sarah Scott: further defines.

  [00:29:00] Building the Brand

  Christine Gritmon: I have an idea for you. And it's, gonna sound like, oh my God, that's a lot of work, but I think it actually plays really well to the type of work you do well. I want you to think about creating three things at once.

  Sarah Scott: Oh, what do you want me to create?

  Christine Gritmon: because it's the doing of the thing, but it's not actually creating things at, three things at once.

  It's creating one big thing. And spinning off three separate things out of that. So the rich work is what it is, but then it's, so you ready? Here's, what I see for you.

  Sarah Scott: Okay. I know. Yeah.

  Christine Gritmon: the podcast, obviously. And we've talked about this before, you mentioned you're a Friends fan, and I love the idea of Ugly Naked Podcast, because it's about the true bare bones, here's how it is podcast.

  But I, know it's not, I even designed a logo for you.

  Sarah Scott: You did, but do you know what my absolute, I have an absolute fear with that name of what I am going to attract

  Christine Gritmon: naked's

  Sarah Scott: you are not a Friends fan.

  Christine Gritmon: Yeah, okay, that's fair. Okay, so you have, forget the name, that's not my department, that's not the type of branding I do, that's all you. although, I'll, brainstorm with you anytime. first of all, there's the podcast. So it sounds like the podcast is going to be you interviewing female podcasters about podcasting and that's fantastic.

  I think that's a great thing. So that is what it is.

  Sarah Scott: Yep.

  Christine Gritmon: Then I want you to do two other things on the side. I would love for you to create content out of creating that content because this is your first podcast. You have said straight up that it's going to require practice, that, you're gonna, no matter how much you know about it from an academic standpoint or from, a being behind the scenes and help producing it pot standpoint, doing it is so different.

  So I think you sharing those experiences would be epic.

  Sarah Scott: Yeah.

  Christine Gritmon: along on the journey, maybe after you record a podcast. You could be like, all right, here's how I feel about what I just did.

  the good, the bad, and the ugly, what you think you did well, what you could improve next time, just going into it. Even when you're like starting to, even the preamble of trying to figure out what to call it, trying to book guests. just really, cause, the thing is you're building the plane while flying it.

  And, any, content creator does that, but especially if they're creating a type of content they haven't created before. So I think that, one example is, I don't know if you saw this, but Social Media Examiner, a few years ago, Mike Stelzner created a mini series on YouTube called The Journey.

  And it was

  Sarah Scott: Oh, I did.

  Christine Gritmon: yeah, and it was behind the scenes, and it was all about how they were trying to hit a certain goal for that following year's social media marketing world. So, that was, again, behind the scenes of here's what the not totally smooth elements of this look like. And it's really humanizing and in your case it would be really educational because a huge part of what you want to do with it is to educate.

  So what better way to educate than to take people along as you learn yourself.

  [00:32:33] One way Christine built her brand

  Christine Gritmon: Part of how I built my personal brand was I live tweeted the crap out of conferences because I was going there to learn. the way that I learned any of this stuff, was originally just by geeking out on it and learning from other people, and so I decided to share that learning.

  I was like, why on earth would I hoard it? And that actually got me recognition as someone who was a source of this great information that actually came from other people, but I was sharing it. So I think that speaks really well to your desire to educate, but it also might be a nice way to take the edge off the wanting it to be perfect.

  Sarah Scott: Yeah. I hadn't thought of that way. That's a good point.

  [00:33:14] Choosing a platform for your brand

  Christine Gritmon: it would be a different format. Don't do a podcast about creating a podcast about creating

  Sarah Scott: Creating a podcast for podcasters.

  Christine Gritmon: Yeah, I don't know what type of format you'd feel better doing it in. I don't know.

  Sarah Scott: Maybe it's LinkedIn con or I'm mostly on LinkedIn, but it could be Instagram content as opposed as well.

  Christine Gritmon: it would have to be something that you would want to do, and I don't consider you a huge Instagram gal.

  Sarah Scott: I'm not a huge Instagram. I'm not a huge social media gal and that's. That's a big, weird, that's a big weirdness for me,

  Christine Gritmon: your mind went to LinkedIn first, so you could create a LinkedIn newsletter, perhaps?

  Sarah Scott: Ooh,

  Christine Gritmon: you've said that you're not a writer, you're a talker, but as you are someone who's very good with Descript, so you could always speak your article. first of all, there's audio on LinkedIn. LinkedIn audio is a thing.

  you can

  Sarah Scott: use it anymore?

  Christine Gritmon: I don't know, but it exists. You can be a pioneer, Sarah.

  Sarah Scott: I'll be, I'll reinvent it.

  Christine Gritmon: Yeah. Also, it could be a privately embedded podcast, so you're not actually recording a whole other podcast, but you are embedding that audio in the or, again, you could just, transcript it. I think that's the way to go.

  If you're comfortable with LinkedIn, it should be some sort of LinkedIn content series, maybe, is a thought. it, you shouldn't force yourself to be vulnerable in a space that you're not comfortable in.

  And I would say don't go make a TikTok series out of this. But wait. But wait, there's more. you've got the podcast. You've got the content about your learning process of putting this podcast together, which should actually debut before the podcast.

  Sarah Scott: It should. Yeah, that, that makes sense. What's

  Christine Gritmon: third part's gonna sound a little nutty.

  Sarah Scott: Let's go with Nutty.

  Christine Gritmon: I would, while you are creating that side content about what you're learning during this process, start cobbling together the skeleton of a course,

  Sarah Scott: know, I thought about that.

  Christine Gritmon: what better time to understand the learning process than when you yourself are going through the learning process?

  Sarah Scott: It's very true. I know. Yeah. I hadn't cons, I hadn't actually considered that piece. That's,

  [00:35:49] Benefits of Establishing Your Brand

  Christine Gritmon: Yeah, because what better way To establish, so here's what that does. Triple establishment for you eventually getting into being more of a podcast trainer.

  Sarah Scott: Yeah.

  Christine Gritmon: is how I could see you. I could see you being a podcast coach, podcast trainer, whatever you want to call it. so you're triply, establishing credibility and establishing your brand as, yeah, of course I already do this, um, which is, first of all, there's the people who want to see the polished product.

  They don't want to learn podcasting from someone who's not a podcaster. Okay. You're a podcaster, so you've got that part sorted. Then there's the fact that the people who are following along for your journey and learning as you learn, that develop, that develops trust. I have to shout out Bob Berg every second of my life.

  Know, trust. You got to develop, you got to have people knowing you, liking you, and trusting you. The knowing you is just by being visible. The liking you. is because they're able to latch on to something because you're showing your personality, but the trust, that's where the vulner that's where the vulnerability is a superpower.

  Sarah Scott: Yeah.

  Christine Gritmon: trust because they see you admit when you don't know something. So then when you share that you do know something, they're like, clearly she does know that something because if she didn't, she would tell us. And we know that because when she hasn't, she has told us. And it also establishes you as someone who is curious to figure out the right way to do something.

  And eager to share that lesson with others because you're literally doing that. So that means when it's time to actually launch a course, you have that trust. You'll probably have people actually asking you for one before you've made it.

  Sarah Scott: Wouldn't that be nice?

  Christine Gritmon: Oh god, I have weird light pattern things happening on my face. Alright,

  Sarah Scott: was going to say, look, it's one of those rare days that the sun is out in the UK.

  Christine Gritmon: the sun will come out when I'm recording. Alright, I should have closed that shade, but that's okay. Alright, we'll cut this out of the audio podcast.

  Sarah Scott: And we can always make it a blooper reel and the rest of it.

  Christine Gritmon: Video exclusive. Exclusively on YouTube.

  I would definitely, I think, that this is a thought because, again, I, I think that even though the podcast, the Shiny Actual podcast, feels like the main thing, I think you'd be surprised at how much you sharing your journey becomes the thing that actually gets you stages.

  Sarah Scott: And that's, that would be really interesting.

  [00:38:34] The Power of Networking to Build Your Brand

  Christine Gritmon: Although, the people you interview on your podcast are also an incredible way to build a network of people in the podcasting community. I can see you, again, I know travel is not super on your radar right now,

  Sarah Scott: will be.

  Christine Gritmon: but there are in person and online stages. There are online summits, there are things like this, especially now.

  since 2020,

  Sarah Scott: Thank God they're coming back.

  Christine Gritmon: yeah, lots of online things, that you could get started there and once you've built up that reputation speaking on the online speaker circuit, your kids will be a little older, and you might feel a little more comfortable getting out there. Though at the same time, you're not going nowhere.

  We met at a conference.

  Sarah Scott: Oh yeah. I'm going to conferences and things, which is, has been amazing. there is such a click over energy. I don't know any other way to describe it. Like I feel more in my own being when I'm at those conferences and I'm around other professionals and it's just Oh yeah, this was what it was like to be a professional

  Christine Gritmon: What elements of that light you up? When you've been to events and you're feeling It clicking in and you're feeling that electricity of being in your zone. What elements tend to be the moments where that happens? Is it in sessions? Is it in between sessions meeting people? Is it totally outside at dinner?

  Is it like meeting in real life the people who you've been listening to or reading forever? What does it for ya?

  Sarah Scott: it's a big combination. I think of all of that. So like social media marketing world was amazing when I went there for the first time this past year. And I was meeting people who I've been following for years. And that was just like, I was sitting to dinner with these people and I felt and it wasn't like this huge dinner.

  it was a table of maybe 15 people, but it was still like, Whoa, I am. And I don't think any of these people would think of themselves the way that I think of them, or how I even think of you these are names, these are people, if you were in these spaces and in these industries, they, people know who you are, and it's here I am having a conversation with you, and I'm having dinner with you, there was this feeling of feeling important or feeling recognized from some of those conversations, which I know is probably super shallow to say, but,

  Christine Gritmon: No, I have that too. And, I have to say, You, again, being involved in my own podcasting career, When I got to interview Pat Flynn,

  Sarah Scott: hello, right?

  Christine Gritmon: And then when Pat Flynn interviewed me, I felt important. Like People geek out on that stuff, and even when you reach a certain level of success, there's people who still geek out on that stuff.

  Sarah Scott: glad to hear that.

  Christine Gritmon: yeah, we're both friends with Andrew and Pete, that's who introduced us. They geek out on people, of course they do, but they're Andrew and Pete!

  Sarah Scott: right. And that's but they're Andrew and Pete, don't they know everybody, everybody knows them. And it's still yeah, they still,

  Christine Gritmon: They get excited still, they get starstruck.

  Sarah Scott: yeah. Like when they had Chris Doe last year at Atomicon, like you, if you watch them make that announcement, like they were star struck at the fact that he was even coming.

  So it's all right. That does, that's a good point. And that does make me feel a little less. Bad about it, but that's probably one of the big things for me. Like I, because I'm an educator too, I'm always big on the sessions. I like getting in and. Going to the sessions, learning as we go. like you said, like I'm not a tweeter.

  I'm not very much in the social media. I'm terrible. I'm not in the social media space, but

  Christine Gritmon: I don't tweet things anymore either because

  Sarah Scott: nobody does.

  Christine Gritmon: It's X now and X is a different product. Sorry, rant over, continue.

  Sarah Scott: No, that's a fair rant, such a fair rant. but, but I'm that same way. Like I like to hear what I hear and then share that. Because, when they're really good sessions, like I really love, really, good meaty sessions. one of my favorites that I still go back to from, social media marketing world, Judy Fox gave an amazing talk on LinkedIn and it was just like, I couldn't stop taking notes.

  those are my, that really lights me up to get that kind of content. directly from these people on the stages, like not just following their stuff online or watching it there. so there's a light there too, but I think ultimately the last thing that truly gets me is one, it's this mindset of, I feel like I'm, Sarah.

  And this is, I don't know how to define this really well, so I'm hoping you can maybe pull it out. But I'm not mom and I'm not a wife. I'm not all the other roles that I play when I'm at these conferences. yes, I still, of course, they're all still part of who I am. And anybody who saw me in the social media marketing world, like I snuck off at the end of most days, like around four o'clock or so, because I was reading a book to my kids.

  And so I. video them and I was reading to them as they were going to bed. but like for the most part, I just got to feel like myself. I didn't have all these other things I had to think about and all these other places. So I felt like I showed up very differently while I was at the conference than I do in my everyday life most of the time.

  because I just got to be me.

  Christine Gritmon: You had your superhero cape on. I, describe, that professional version of myself as Christine effing Gritman.

  Sarah Scott: Yeah. Yeah.

  Christine Gritmon: and sitting around the house, before I came on this recording today, I was not Christine F. Ingritman. I was on the couch, eating reheated pizza.

  I was not Christine F. Ingritman, and then I put on the red lipstick and prepared to sit here as Christine F. Ingritman, and I'm in that right now. I feel like a different person. And then, when I pick my kids up in the afternoon, I'm not Christine Effing - Gritmon, I'm just like random tired mom. So I totally understand that.

  One thing that I want to point out, so you're fairly new to, the conference scene in this industry, but one really great thing that going to those events and speaking to people does, and especially something that you'll find interviewing these people does, is it humanizes them and it helps you realize There's no reason you can't be one of those also.

  And that, I think, is something that's going to be incredibly valuable for you. And you have the right connections to be able to get serious people on. first of all, Andrea Ball, to begin with. That's a serious get. I'm looking forward to getting her. that's a serious get. you've got lots of people.

  You mentioned Judy Fox. I can literally text my friend Judy from my phone for you right now if you want her on your podcast. Because, oh, she'd do it.

  Sarah Scott: Envy. So much envy.

  Christine Gritmon: you don't have to envy because you can, you have access to these wonderful people. And, I know Judy won't be like, don't go volunteering me for stuff.

  Judy is so generous with her knowledge. That's

  Sarah Scott: She's amazing. I got to meet her last year to that social media marketing world too. She's such a gem. Oh,

  Christine Gritmon: that's the other thing you'll learn when you spend more time talking to these people. You'll learn which people are super genuine, down to earth people, like Judy, and then which people are more hype than substance and are less generous.

  And, if your goal is to educate people, to educate yourself and to educate others along with you, you'll learn what people, are aligned with that goal and what people are not. And again, the best way to do it is to do it. I can think of someone, I'm not going to name them, and they'd never guess that this was them.

  But years ago, I interviewed someone who I was very excited to interview and who's very supportive online, very rah and very personally And I interviewed them, and they were really clearly of the mindset of I'll give you my thoughts on this, but you can't really find out any of my special sauce without paying.

  And that's not who I have on my show. You know that.

  Sarah Scott: no,

  Christine Gritmon: So I think, but I think you're going to have a great time. I think the people who you interview are going to have a great time because you're interviewing them. about not what they're always interviewed about. They're always interviewed about their area of expertise, or they're interviewing other people more of the time.

  There's probably some people who you'll have on where their whole thing is being an interviewer, and they don't get interviewed a lot, but you're interviewing them about something very specific that isn't something that they get to talk about a lot. So that's going to be very cool. Okay, so I want to make sure that we do round this up eventually.

  So twofer here, one thing is what are you still trying to answer for yourself about your personal brand, your messaging, your who am I business?

  [00:47:30] Defining Your Brand: The Struggle of Self-Representation

  Christine Gritmon: what are you still what's that nagging? unclosed loop. Cause I feel like we all have them. I'm a personal brand strategist and I certainly have them.

  So, what's your thing that you feel like maybe it's not connecting either in your own head or it's connected in your head. It's just not connecting once it reaches the outside world.

  Sarah Scott: Oh, that's a tougher question. You, that, last part is the tougher question actually, because I'm so funny because I tell people this all the time that I am terrible on paper and I am like a totally different person when you meet me, I feel like, and I could be completely wrong, but, I feel like that's always been like, Hey, my resume, like on paper, like.

  but once people meet me and they actually get to know me, I think that I've always shined it. Like it's a very different opinion, Oh, you do all these things and you have all these skills and it just looks so different. And I think I still struggle with that even today in terms of like, how do I make sure, I guess it's a twofold thing that I think about struggling with.

  One is how do I make sure that brand who I am or what that is comes across no matter how? I'm presenting it, whether it's in writing or it's on a podcast or it's on, a social media post, whatever it happens to be, but I think the deeper problem I have there, as well as one of the questions or several of the questions, a series of your questions that I struggled with was how.

  What is it? And how is it that I want to show up in the world? What is it? The, you had things like, what are the words that you want your brand to express? And I have no idea. And a lot of ways I feel like I really struggle with what that is. And I look at folks like you and there's a few others that I look at that I think have really strong brand messaging and it comes across really clear to me, your personality and who you are and what I would expect if I was to meet you, which, again, I knew all that before I met you and I met you and it was 100 percent on everything. Like you were as on in person as you were in everything else that I had ever seen.

  Christine Gritmon: love hearing that, especially now at this point, you're someone who's seen me in so many situations.

  Sarah Scott: Yeah, but and, the truth, yes, and I've seen you in a lot of different situations, but you're still always you, I can't think of a time that I've seen you so off from anything. And when I do see you off, I know why you're off and it's usually an energy thing. And it's normally, like I said, I'll see it sometimes in conversations that you're having with guests where the energy doesn't match, but it's not that you're not 100 percent you.

  It's just that it's still we all need that energy feed of the right people to pull us

  Christine Gritmon: contain multitudes.

  Sarah Scott: We do, especially as women, don't we contain so many multitudes?

  Christine Gritmon: So

  Sarah Scott: so I think that's the biggest thing I struggle with is how do I make sure that, A, how do I define that? what other guidance do you give around really defining that feeling around your brand or what it is people would expect from me?

  and what do I want them to expect from me? Cause I know this isn't a lot different from who you are cause then you're fighting your brand messaging. and then how do I make sure it just shows up that way everywhere that I'm going, like regardless of whether or not it's the way that I properly communicate.

  I think one of the biggest things I did recently was change the name of. I'm still in the process, but changing the name of the company from what I was, because I hated my old name of my company, which was elite media strategies, it meant nothing to me. It was so ostentatious and like pomp.

  I felt like it was pompous, but it was something my husband and I came up with like in the middle of the night one night and it was like, Oh, this is really generic. And yeah, it was really generic. so by turning the name over to a studio name and it was a personal name, but it's the studio. I know I felt a lot more like I could step into that brand.

  And into that message because of that. But I still don't know what that feeling is.

  Christine Gritmon: Makes total sense.

  [00:51:42] Generous Curiosity: The Key to Successful Branding

  Christine Gritmon: I would say, just to volunteer some words that I associate with you, and especially after this conversation, I would say the words that are coming to me are, you come from a place of generous curiosity. And what I mean by generous curiosity is it's generous on both the front end and the back end, so it's generous curiosity insofar as you're genuinely curious in a generous way of I actually care what you have to say, I'm, you're generous with your giving of Hoot.

  So you're generous in that way, and you really want to listen, but then you're generous on the back end, too, which is that once you have learned from that person, and once you have gotten their message, and once you've connected with that, and, done, gotten your own curiosity satisfied on some level, that it'll never be satisfied because you're a curious person.

  You are generous with sharing that. as well. Not only do you want to share what you've learned, but you want to share that person's message. You said at the beginning, you really love helping people get their stories out there and amplify that. So I would say that you come at things from a place of generous curiosity.

  I know that you are a very open and caring person. Here's the interesting thing. I feel like you absolutely don't need anyone else to be perfect. I feel like that's a very big thing. I feel like you are not a judgmental person. You have a point of view. But you're not judgmental. Like it's, a really cool balance, but I think that you are having an expectation of yourself.

  And again, I think that putting yourself out there with a, mindset of, I don't have to know what I'm doing, because part of what I'm putting myself out there as is someone who is learning. I think that's gonna be really key for you. I think that's a really key direction. I think that loosening Those bounds of needing it to be right, and I understand wanting to be an expert, and that's huge, and I think you're gonna be, and I think you are on some levels already, because you have a really good instinct for this stuff, and everything, every time you do it, you're learning more, and you're retaining that, and you're using it, but I think that the, learner mindset and the teacher mindset go hand in hand.

  I think that you don't have to be an expert to teach. People disagree. I think

  Sarah Scott: It's going to be one step ahead of the person you're teaching.

  Christine Gritmon: Exactly.

  Sarah Scott: Honestly.

  Christine Gritmon: I think you just need to be honest and open and Hey, I'm Sarah. I know some stuff. I want to know more stuff. If you want to know this stuff too, come along for the journey.

  Sarah Scott: Yeah,

  Christine Gritmon: Again, I think generous curiosity is really, do those

  Sarah Scott: heard anybody say that. I don't know too many people that have, see, and every time you say something like that, the first person that comes to mind is Pat Flynn, because I know that's how he, when he first started everything, that was his kind of approach was, Hey, I don't know this stuff.

  I'm learning this stuff.

  Christine Gritmon: Serve first.

  Sarah Scott: to learn it with me.

  Christine Gritmon: Serve first is this whole

  Sarah Scott: Yeah, and I, and it's really interesting because I think that when I do think back over the times and the things that always make me feel really good about myself is when I can't help somebody else. When somebody comes to me and says, Hey, I don't know, and this happened the other day and I was I was actually flattered that this person came and asked me a question and they're like, Hey, I know you use DSS script.

  I'm having a problem with it. Can you help me figure this thing out? And I'm like, yeah, here's what I do. And here's what happens. And what, let me know, is it working? And, and I gave all my tips and my thoughts around what I thought it would do or how I would have approached the problem. And then, like two days later, I followed back up and I was like, Hey, by the way, did you fix the problem?

  She's I'm just, she was, thank you for following back up with me. She's I didn't realize she was, I just, she wasn't expecting me to follow back up, it felt really good. And I'm like, if I don't know the answer, like here's, I'm going to look for it. I'm going to help you look for it because it's just, I want to know the answer to on how to fix something like that, but, and.

  For me, that's just always been my modem. And what I hated, what I literally hated about that is that I had to take a step back and feel like as an entrepreneur, I had to caveat it somehow and say, Oh, don't worry about it. There's no cost to this. I'll help you get this fixed if I can, because I'd offered to like even bring the file into my own Descript for if it would help, if our versions were different or something.

  And I'm like, I just do it as a friend just to help, and maybe that's not the right approach, but at the same time, she was stuck in a bind and she's a friend. but that's my approach to everything is Hey, if it makes me feel really good when people ask me like, Hey, do you know how to fix this thing?

  Regardless of I actually know how to fix it or not,

  Christine Gritmon: I love that she knew to ask you and you just illustrated generous curiosity. My goodness, you wanted to figure it out

  Sarah Scott: it's all I wanted to do.

  Christine Gritmon: you wanted to help her.

  Sarah Scott: Yeah.

  Christine Gritmon: Because you're generous. But you want to figure it out, because you're curious. Ah!

  Sarah Scott: because eventually it's going to be my problem too. I guess it's a part of the way I always look at it is if somebody has this problem, then more than likely, if I haven't bumped into it yet, I'm probably going to bump into it.

  Christine Gritmon: in this together. Rising tide lifts all boats,

  Sarah Scott: boats, right?

  Christine Gritmon: an educator wants to educate freely. An educator doesn't want to hoard their knowledge. An educator and someone who's actually interested in helping others do well, and helping others get their messages out there,

  Sarah Scott: Yeah. not everything has sales pitch.

  Christine Gritmon: Yeah. Oh my goodness.

  I could talk about this with you all day.

  Sarah Scott: And luckily enough, other people can,

  Christine Gritmon: Yes. so again, I want everyone at home to know that you can get you can download for free, my huge Mondo version of some of the guiding questions that I start my clients on. You don't have to answer all of them, this is just for you, I promise. So do what feels right, don't do what doesn't, unless it doesn't because it's hard, in which case maybe do press on.

  and, yeah, so you can get that at Gritman. com slash pre work. And Sarah. Wonderful Sarah Scott podcast person extraordinaire. Tell the good folks at home where they can find you, why they should find you, and what they will find there.

  Sarah Scott: let me see.

  [00:58:26] Where to Find Me: Connecting with Sarah Scott

  Sarah Scott: You can find me on LinkedIn as Sarah Scott or Sarah Hutchins Scott. I think it's under all three names there. that's where I'm most often going to be found. You can also take a look at my website at Sarah Scott studios and you'll find me there as well. And I think the reasons why you might want to follow me, I think Christine laid those all out in the episode.

  we're going to start. I'm sure that you will be finding I share a lot of stuff about creating podcasts, the podcasters I work with. and I also share a bit about my journey as an adjunct professor for university and some of the other quirky weird things that go on in life.

  Christine Gritmon: We didn't even talk about the fact that you're an adjunct professor at a university. What? Okay,

  Sarah Scott: Yeah,

  so many facets.

  Christine Gritmon: two. Maybe there's a part two coming up in 2024. You'll have to see.

  [00:59:18] Wrapping Up: The Journey of Personal Branding

  Sarah Scott: And just so you're listening to that free guide, we'll have that in the show notes. so if you're on your player, if you're watching on YouTube, just look in the description, the link will be right there for you. So you don't have to go too far to grab it.

  Christine Gritmon: And Sarah's the one who put it there because Sarah's amazing. Thank you so much, Sarah. This has been awesome.

  Sarah Scott: You're welcome. It's been so much fun.

  Christine Gritmon: And thank you so much for being here. Whether you're listening to Let's Talk About Brand on your podcast player of choice or watching the video podcast on YouTube, either way, please subscribe and leave a message and or rating if you like it.

  Again, this was not what one of my sessions really looks like. This was just a little test, a little taster of what some of that work and what some of those methodologies, tend to be like, I call it like the therapy bit is how I start with my personal branding clients. So please do reach out if you are interested in seeing what it really, looks like.

  And regardless, either way, I do hope you'll join us next week for Let's Talk About Brand when it will be a normal episode where I'm interviewing another smart guest about another element of personal branding. Thanks. Bye.

S4 Ep05: Let's Talk About Design for Personal Brands

What comes to mind when you think of personal brand design? Is it fonts? Colors? Logos? Images? Templates? All of the above? Or maybe none of the above? 

That is not all that uncommon, a lot of people when they think of design, think of a consumer brand or something like that, or, some big corporation, but personal brands also need some design love too.

Today I’m talking with brand designer, Amy Walker from Bloom Creative about, what goes into brand design, what type of visual branding is useful for a personal brand to have, what brand parameters make sense for a personal brand to have and so much more!

While there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to personal brand design, Amy has worked with many people to design their personal brands, so she's going to tell us her expert opinion on what are good things to think about when it comes to designing your personal brand.

Tune in as we talk about the following design choices for personal brands: 

[00:00] Welcome Amy Walters!
[02:36] What is the core of every personal brand design?
[04:05] How does color psychology play into selecting a brand color?
[10:22] What is important when it comes to visual branding for personal brands?
[13:03] Should personal brands have a logo?
[18:08] How do photography and brand images come into play with personal branding?
[20:39] What are some of the digital assets that are needed for a personal brand design? 
[24:11] What is included in a personal brand design guide? 
[26:03] What are the limits for colors and fonts in a personal brand?
[30:03] What should be taken into consideration as a brand evolves over time?

Contact Amy Walters
Linkedin: Amy Walters
Instagram: Amy Walters
Website: Bloom Creative

• Read the Show Transcript Here

  Christine Gritmon: Hello, welcome to Let's Talk About Brand. I'm your host, Christine Gritmon, coming at you every single week, talking with a different guest expert about branding, especially personal branding.

  Today, I'm speaking to designer Amy Walters of Bloom Creative. I saw Amy speak in London at a digital women event.

  And she was talking about design and AI at that point which is something she talks a lot about, but that is not the topic of today's show. What I really wanted to talk to Amy about today was about design and personal branding. A lot of people, when they think of design, they think of, consumer brand or something like that, or, some big corporation, but personal brands also need some design love too.

  So Amy and I are going to talk today about, first of all, what goes into brand design, because a brand is not the design itself. So Amy definitely is very thoughtful with her process. She's going to give us some really great insights as to the things we need to give thought to before just slapping on a color and a font and calling it a brand.

  We're also going to talk about what type of visual branding is useful for a personal brand to have. We generally don't have things like packaging or brochures or any of that. What sort of things do we need designed? Should we work with a designer on? But also what sort of brand parameters make sense for a personal brand to have?

  Do you need a logo? Do you need colors, fonts? How many? All of that. While there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to brand design, Amy has worked with many people to design their personal brands, so she's going to tell us her expert opinion on sort of what are good things to think about when it comes to designing your personal brand.

  Without any further ado, let's bring her on! Come on down, Amy Walters!

  Amy Walters: I love the applause.

  Christine Gritmon: Who doesn't? My goodness. And of course, one fabulous way to warrant applause is to have fabulous branding. So I'm actually going to dive right in with you, Amy.

  A lot of people, when they think about branding, They think about the design elements. They think about a color or, a logo or font treatments, things of that nature.

  But as we were discussing before the show, a brand really is so much more than that. And really a brand is what goes into all of those decisions ultimately. So Amy, as a brand designer, when you're working with someone on designing the visual elements of their branding, what are some of those things that really need to be nailed down first, before you can decide how to represent that brand visually?

  Amy Walters: Yeah, absolutely. It goes so much further than just what looks pretty and what's on trend so what I do with clients is talk to them about their vision for what it is they're doing so whether that's personally or in their business what it is that they are doing And what their vision and their values are and the same for their target audience because that's important too. And once you've got that sort of picture behind the heart of their business, why did they start it?

  What's their passion or their project if it's not a business? And then also what their target audience like to see, then that all feeds into the branding and the visual appearance that has so much more meaning than just, we chose this because it resonated with us on some level because it looked pretty. It gives so much more meaning and that in turn, makes a brand more memorable because we as humans love to put meaning behind things.

  So if we can see why it's been done, we're going to remember it more and we're going to be able to relate more with that brand and that appearance.

  Christine Gritmon: To that point about us, you know, automatically imbuing things with meaning and imbuing colors and shapes and things of that nature with meaning, what are some examples of how that translates into the type of visual branding that you would use? What are some things that we already imbue with meaning that can serve as that sort of shortcut to people for what we stand for?

  Amy Walters: Yeah, so colors that you touched on is a brilliant one for that. There's something called color psychology, which is the psychology behind color. When you see a color How does it make you feel? What does it make you want to do? Is it an encouraging color? And so looking into the color psychology, you can then choose colors that suit your brand your niche your industry, but also that help you to stand out. So there are colors that mean sort of happy, you know happy meanings and there are colors that are perhaps more serious and those things are really worth considering.

  I think it's just it's so interesting when you dive into the psychology behind color and what each and every single one means but also on another level to that. Whilst there are meanings for, if you think the whole of society, they'll see red and that means danger, or they'll see red and that means excitement there are also meanings that are personal to every individual person so you're not going to know what those are. But you might find that your brand really resonates with a particular target client because for them personally the color means something even more than what it would mean for any other person walking down the street.

  So color is a brilliant place to start, and I suppose in a way, one of those shortcuts. Because we all know what colors are, we all know that there are infinite colors and we all know the colors of the rainbow.

  So if we start with colors and how the meaning of the colors link with the meaning of your business and the passion of your business and what you do, then that is a great place to start with your branding.

  Christine Gritmon: Hadn't meant to go this personal this early, but Amy, Purple, Bloom Creative, your company goes with Purple. Tell me how you came to that decision.

  Amy Walters: Yeah, I love the story behind my branding. It's something that I thought a lot about when I started out as a freelancer, I was using colors that I, you know, I liked and they did resonate with me and they had meaning. But actually now that I've gone purple and with Bloom Creative. There's so much more behind that.

  So the story behind the purple is that when I was starting my business, there was a lot of influence of my grandma. My grandma sadly is no longer with us. She passed away in 2014, but she was a creative and she was somebody who I aspire to because she was always giving, she was generous with her time.

  She was so kind and she had the creative side of being an excellent painter and being able to create things out of wool, like knitted that it was just brilliant. So she was super creative. So I looked at the color purple because that was her favorite color. She always wore purple. And then once I dove into it further, I realised that the colour purple has so much more going on in terms of the colour psychology. And it's a colour I'm drawn to, I love the colour purple too.

  And there's no surprise. because something I find that people have with their kind of their brand colors, often they'll choose them. And then when they look at the color psychology afterwards, they'll realize that it's connected somehow with their business and their passions. Probably nine times out of 10, I find that happens.

  And when I've shared on social about it, people comment. So you might find that. So with this color psychology behind purple, there's a lot to do with kind of creativity which makes sense. But there's also something about the color purple, which is it's one of the richest colors that doesn't fade over time.

  And I think that really describes what I do in terms of enhancing people's brands and trying to create brands that don't fade. So it's not a visual brands that will last you a few years, and then you'll have to refresh it or start again, even, but it's a brand that you can start and build from, and it will last you for a huge length of time and be, enhanced and lasting instead of just something quick and simple and not complex and up and out there. But then in a year's time, you realize you want to redo it. So that kind of everlasting purple color really connects with that too. So that's you know the purple side.

  Christine Gritmon: I love that. I love how much meaning you have in there for that purple color choice. And the interesting thing is... Someone else who uses purple may have a totally different meaning behind purple for it, but it also works. I know Julie Catino, who was actually the very first let's talk about brand guest back in 2020.

  Her whole thing is brand twist. It's about getting influences from outside places. And she chose purple because it's a twist of, blue and red or blue and pink. They're the primary colors that are secondary in her brand, but the primary brand color is that secondary purple because it's a twist.

  Oh my goodness, I love it. I chose red because it was my favorite color, but since then I've added the layers of meaning to it about excitement. Excitement and passion and enthusiasm is all my superpower. It works with the retro thing. It's so easy to pull in with, lipstick and accessories.

  There's all sorts of reasons why it works. But the reason I chose it to begin with is just cause it just fit for me. It just resonated. It was something I did naturally and I could add in those elements of meaning later. But it is important to give thought to those things if you're going to really define a brand.

  Which actually brings me to something I really want to discuss with you. A lot of times when we think of branding, when we think of. Not just visual branding, but branding in general, coming up with a brand, what a brand even is. We often think of a consumer brand or, a big B2B company or something of that nature.

  But here at Let's Talk About Brand and in my own work, I'm all about the personal brand and personal branding varies pretty wildly. Some people feel like they do need some sort of visual branding. Some people don't bother with the visual branding. Not everyone has to be, bathed in it like I am.

  First of all, I'm going to ask for your thoughts on visual branding for personal brands, because some people like having a logo. Some people are fine with just a color palette. Some people just like consistency with the overall design. Vibe. What do you feel when it comes to visual branding for personal brands and why it is useful and even why it may not be useful?

  Amy Walters: Yeah, so again you hit kind of the nail on the head in terms of consistency So consistency is one of the things that is really important. I think when it comes to your visual personal branding. So if you do start to use a color palette it's important to stick to that and use it consistently.

  And of course, over time, you can change it if there is reason to, but being consistent and showing up consistently, it's going to be one of those things that makes you a few things. It makes you trustworthy because you show up how people expect you to look and it makes you noticed and remembered. So people see you and they go, Oh yeah, that's you.

  But then also when they need you further down the line, they think I need you. So as an example, I was having a chat, actually with my auntie I don't often see her and we had a chat at a family party recently. And she said, Oh, I nearly got some work your way because I wanted to recommend you because my work were having a rebrand.

  And she said, and I got so excited that I said, I know a purple business who can do that. So for her, as soon as she heard that there was an opportunity for work, she immediately thought of me and my purple business, as she put it. Using your branding consistently, whether that's colours, whether that's fonts, whether that's carousels that look consistently the same and are engaging in design, you will be remembered.

  And then thought of when people need your services. So I think that's a really good pro to having your branding defined. In terms of personal branding, there are, cons if you go a bit too far and you spend too much time perfecting your look, because naturally as humans we are not perfect and you don't want to, as your personal brand look to be the perfect person.

  Because people don't follow that online, they don't want to see the perfect, they want to see the real. So as long as you're balancing that with meaningful branding that works for you, that resonates with you, and then not taking it too far and being too perfect about it, that you either don't post, or you post too infrequently, or, you restrict yourself and your content because of that, then you can create that perfect balance with your personal brand.

  Christine Gritmon: If I may extrapolate from that, from what you're saying, so consistent is better than perfect, but doing it at all is even more important than consistent. You don't have to feel boxed in by the elements that you've defined if they make you unable to be a person.

  Amy Walters: Exactly, absolutely exactly that. It's that kind of balance and the balance you have to keep an eye on all of the time.

  Christine Gritmon: Now, how do you feel about logos for personal brands? Because I know that's a tricky one. At the beginning of my business, I had a logo, I didn't really like it, and I almost never used it. And I have since developed a logo that I love that is literally based on my own signature. It's very close to my own signature and it has the retro vibe, but it took years for me to get to a point where I had something I enjoyed using and that was flexible enough to use also because my old one only kind of worked in a square. How do you feel about personal brands and logos? Do they need them? Do they generally not and what should people consider when considering one of those for their personal brand?

  Amy Walters: Yeah, so I think it changes all of the time per person. So it's definitely an individual answer. So for some people having a logo like yours that's a more signature logo, that works for them because it means they can brand stuff up that Does require a logo, whether that's on a business card or on a website.

  So there are places that logos can be used for personal branding. That being said I think definitely the people i've worked with in terms of personal branding we have chosen to stick more to that sort of signature handwriting style because that feels the most personal. So it makes sense that your logo is based on your signature because that's a very personal approach to a personal branding logo. I think though, with whether or not you should have one, you can do without one.

  So there are a number of social platforms you'll probably be on. If you are on those social platforms, often you'll need a profile picture. And there is a lot of kind of discussion out there as to whether your profile picture should be your photo or should be your logo. But I think we can all agree we're leaning more towards photos, especially when it's personal branding.

  So if you're using your photo and your face, that sort of, I suppose, becomes your logo in that's the face of what you do. And that's what people recognize in the way that a logo might be the face of a business. So there are pros and cons. And like I say, it's completely individualized as to whether a logo would be worth it for you and your personal brand.

  Work it out whether that would be something that you need and why. If you're just doing it to have a logo for logo's sake, probably not the reason.

  Christine Gritmon: I absolutely love what you said about how your face can almost function as the logo. I always encourage that when people are comfortable doing it, especially if they're operating as a service provider or something where the business name is Their name, I'm Christine Gritman, Inc. And so Christine Gritman is the product is the service is what you're getting.

  I'm curious as to how you decided to go with a name for your business with Bloom Creative instead of just going with Amy Walters. How did you make that decision?

  Amy Walters: I actually started as Amy Walters. So when I started freelancing in 2018, I started as Amy Walters, then art and design. And I had two parts of my business and it was all very much me. I then went through some business coaching, around this time last year. So I'm coming up to Bloom Creatives one year birthday.

  So around this time last year, I was coming to the end of my coaching. And in that I had discovered that actually by using my name, I was limiting myself because I was weaving my own identity with my business. And for me as a person that didn't work so well. And I needed a way to express myself creatively in a business that had its own identity, but I could also be Amy Walters, who does her creative hobbies and has her side hustles at the same time.

  But I wasn't always Amy Walters and everything was part of that. So that's why I then started looking at having a name. That's when I added purple in too and bloom comes from the idea that I help businesses to bloom So you start, you know as a bud and then you'll bloom and then you'll be blossoming and I help businesses to bloom And continue to bloom so businesses who are already functioning who are already successful, but perhaps even the businesses are blooming, but their visual identity is as if they've just started out and they need to bring that up to show that they are blooming.

  So it's that kind of thing. That's where bloom came from. And of course creative. I decided because I was Amy Walters, art and design, and that felt that I was even restricting myself further by just art and design, and I wanted to widen it to creatives. So I did start as Amy Walters and I built my brand there and then I changed it about a year ago

  Christine Gritmon: And I also want to go back to something else that you pointed out about branding and personal brands, which is pictures. You're not a brand photographer and I've certainly had some of those on and will continue to, but I imagine that some of the design work you do. With clients, especially for personal brands incorporates photography on some level.

  Do you work with photographers and clients together to figure out what's going to be on brand, what's going to work for the designs that you're doing for them? How does photography beyond the simple basic headshot, factor into the design work that you're able to do or that you love to do for clients, especially when it comes to a personal brand?

  Amy Walters: Personal brand photography is so much more exciting than just your standard headshot. I work with a photographer who does my brand photography and she is brilliant at having those discussions with clients about what is it that you do? Who is it that you are as a person?

  And what do you want to show in these photos? So if I give a personal example, for me, the last photo shoot we had it was my first one since becoming Bloom. So since becoming Purple, and I really wanted to make a thing of that. So I went to Tesco's one evening when all of the flowers are yellow stickered and I bought All of the purple ones and then I got myself some purple paper confetti and I found everything purple I had and of course all of my purple clothing And then I made sure that not only did I include my purple because that was the big thing that I wanted to display But also I included my personality. So we had some photos where my head is poking out from the side of stacked up board games.

  And we were a bit selective where we chose the board games that had some floral element to them so that they worked. But it was to show that part of my personality in being creative is that I love to problem solve and I love to play board games. And I've got tons of flowers at home and I've got a kind of water jug that sprays and I've put on there bloom where you are planted.

  And so of course that works with Bloom Creative. So we had a kind of shot of me spraying that. And that's all the different ways that you can build not only your branding in terms of the purple and the style, but also build in your personality. She is a fab person who I recommend clients to, and she can then draw out a bit further than the stuff that I would say.

  I would give some guidance in terms of perhaps the style of images. And whether they need to be particularly edited or quite natural looking and the kind of lighting and stuff But she would take it and go so much further with the personality side of things weaving that with the design which is just fabulous to see and the results look on brand.

  Christine Gritmon: I love that. Now, when someone is going in to have stuff designed for their personal brand, what are some things that you would typically design for someone's personal brand? What sort of digital assets? I don't know if there are any physical materials, but what are some things, I mean, I know you can run the gamut, but what are the usual things that you recommend someone who is building their personal brand out with a designer have in their design arsenal.

  Amy Walters: So generally it would be the digital stuff. So a website would be something I'd recommend especially if that person as a personal brand, perhaps are representing a few different companies. So they're perhaps the CEO of a company and the director of another, and they've got a passion project and they want somewhere to be themselves in all that they do.

  They might then need a website. And that's something that I would work with them to design and have a website that really encompasses their personal brand and lists all of the things they can do. Perhaps they're a speaker as well. And you know, everything, entrepreneurs tend not to stick to one thing. A website can draw all of that together. In a similar way I would then also recommend something like a set of social media banners So that then their personal brand can be really recognizable on their social profiles. So linkedin is an excellent example of that where you go on someone's page and before you even scroll to read their stuff you see their photo and then you see that banner and making use of that banner space in a really clever design way that is on brand and that shows what you do is something that I think is really important in terms of personal branding.

  Christine Gritmon: Another thing that I just want to point out also on LinkedIn that I know people have noticed on mine recently is that in addition to that banner, And your profile image. You also can choose a handful of highlighted pieces of content, and you can choose, you can upload images to those as well. It might be a website link to something.

  And maybe there's a default image that goes in there. You can override that and upload an image of your own. So that's just yet another opportunity you have to really drive that visual branding home on something like a LinkedIn profile.

  Amy Walters: Absolutely.

  Christine Gritmon: So what are some other things that people should be looking at? You mentioned social. Do you do templates for people? Do you help people with that? And what sort of things do people tend to need in that regard?

  Amy Walters: Templates are something that they save time and they help you to look consistent. So it comes back to what we were talking about earlier in terms of that consistency balanced with not being perfect. If you've got a template, it's ready to go and you can fill it in. So quite often either on LinkedIn or Instagram, you'll share a carousel, perhaps of top tips or of a client testimony or something like that.

  You can then use those templates. So yes, I'll design templates for clients for those kinds of things. And we'll look at what content they share regularly that can be templated and then what content perhaps can't be templated and then we'll look at some brand guidelines around those which is the phrase for a document full of ways in which to use certain colors, certain fonts, some do's and don'ts but that there's obviously flexibility because social media again does not need to be absolutely perfect.

  So yeah, templates is a brilliant one.

  Christine Gritmon: How much flexibility should people have generally? Again, no hard and fast rules, but generally speaking, I know a lot of us have heard about design guidelines, brand guidelines, and it's good to have some of those. But what do you recommend people define as part of their visual branding and how tightly should they define it?

  I know some people have whole color palettes, some people have one color. What do you like to do with people when it comes to defining a personal brand's design guidelines?

  Amy Walters: So defining colors is important, and I think being self aware of how much creativity and creative license you like to have for yourself can help you decide how many brand colors to have. So you might be someone who has one or two, or you might be someone who has a batch of additional colors.

  Secondary tertiary colors that you can dip in and out of so that if you perhaps get a bit bored. I think creatives do have the tendency. So if you are a creative with a personal brand, sometimes have the tendency to get a bit bored with doing the same thing. Then you can dip into those secondary, those tertiary colors.

  Having that awareness about yourself can help you to build a personal brand that works for you and isn't restricted. And I'd also include. fonts in personal branding and that just helps with consistency. If you're always changing up your fonts, you run the risk of looking probably a little bit more amateur than you are.

  And you're not going to be recognized quite so much because people will see you appearing differently every time. And again, that could break some of that trust because you're not appearing how they expect to see you. But outside of colors and fonts, you can go as deeply as looking at exactly the style of images and the style of videos you create, and even the transitions that you use.

  But if you're consistently showing up with your colors and your fonts, I would say that's where you need to really stick to. And then the other stuff, you can have some flexibility. But knowing what you need as a person when you're designing stuff or what you need when you're sharing stuff, if you have a designer do it for you is really helpful to then know how much flexibility to give yourself in those guidelines or to tell your designer to give you in those guidelines.

  Christine Gritmon: Around how many colors and fonts do you recommend defining as part of that style guide? Again, for a personal brand, so it's not going to be a huge consumer corporate brand that maybe has as many applications for it as a personal brand may, but at the same time, just one font, just one color, what do you think is a good kind of family to have in there?

  Amy Walters: When it comes to fonts, I often suggest two. So I have, it's a strange connection, but it works to remember it. Two in one shampoo and conditioner, I say have no more than two fonts in one design because then it becomes overwhelming. So likewise in your branding, if you're smaller and not that huge corporate entity, then you can have that two fonts in one brand.

  And so that helps you then to not. To not look too busy to not have too many things going on to not have too much to choose from and help with your consistency and those two fonts generally, you would expect one to perhaps be a bit more bold and used as titles or kind of the hook of a post and then the other to be more perhaps sans serif or which doesn't have all those fancy lines sticking out of the letters.

  So it's very clean and use that for perhaps paragraph text or going into more detail. And that not only helps to get attention with the first font but it also helps when a user is looking at your carousels. They're able to see the top points that are in bold that are the different font and they can see that immediately and go.

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with all of that or oh, That makes sense Oh i'm learning something new and then they get to one and they might want to read a bit more. They can then see the smaller cleaner font underneath and go there to read more. So two fonts as a general rule for personal branding would work well for most people. And then when it comes to colours, again, I would say one or two as a main colour.

  Quite often you'll see people using a single colour, like you and your red, and me and my purple. But then I don't know about you with your red, but I have a few shades of my purple. And then I have some very tertiary colours that kind of come into play that are yellows and oranges and blues. So that if I do need the colours of the rainbow, I've got ones that I default to.

  So you could have your kind of main one or two, and then a... few, perhaps up to five of the secondary ones. But again, it's so hard without individualizing it to have a hard and fast rule.

  Christine Gritmon: Absolutely. I gave a lot of thought to this myself, especially in 2020 in August, 2020, I got a little more serious with defining my visual brand. I looked at. So many combinations of kind of that showy font and that secondary font before I came to these ones. And I defined my shade of red.

  My shade of red is one specific shade of red, but my secondary colors are really just black and white. I'm about to start mixing in some tertiary brand colors. Simply because, I am me, and I feel like a human brand should evolve and follow the person. And there have been a couple colors I've been wearing a lot of lately.

  I've gotten very into dark blue, and I've gotten into this kind of, golden tan color. And those both look good with red. So stay tuned for that. folks. A little bit of that mixed in with the red and black and white of the classic Coca Cola whatnot look.

  Amy Walters: And I love that. And it goes to show that a personal brand isn't necessarily defined and then you have to have it forever. It can grow with you.

  Christine Gritmon: Yeah, so I actually, I think that's the last thing I want to ask you about, which is personal brand... Evolutions how can you, how do you work with people to evolve a brand so that they're not entirely starting from scratch, they are building on that existing brand equity, maybe when they started out, they just did it themselves and they're realizing they want to step it up and work with an actual designer and you don't want to just, ruin every, trash everything they've done before and start from scratch.

  What are some things to keep in mind when evolving a brand?

  Amy Walters: So I define this as a brand refresh as opposed to a redesign because I think redesign makes it sound like you are starting from scratch, whereas a refresh is bringing in some new feel to what is already there. I think it's important always to consider what people already know you as and see you as.

  And so when I work with clients in a brand refresh kind of way We'll look first at what they've got already We'll look at why we've got those things already if there is a reason And then we'll look at what it is that their target audience or their current clients know them for and that will help us to know what to keep and what to change And then when it comes to evolving that Often, if there isn't meaning, definitely if there isn't meaning behind those colours or the branding itself, we will add that meaning in, and that might come with a few colour changes or shades of colour changes.

  But it all comes from a place of meaning, and so it grows as the kind of personal brand has grown.

  And building out your network and changing things, then we can look at how the design can evolve to match that and have that same passion and meaning behind it.

  So there'll be some things that perhaps an icon will stay, but the way the icon looks will be updated or we'll change the icon altogether, but we'll keep the style of font. I worked with a client who had a kind of Korean calligraphy style of font because of where he grew up and because of what his kind of business name was it made sense that we kept that But instead of keeping there's a very limited number of korean calligraphy fonts available, what we then did was make him one.

  So I designed one from scratch that kind of was reflective of that style. And then he had a very updated, more modern looking, clean looking font for his logo. But he looked the same to somebody who had seen him before or worked with him before. They still knew that was him and his brand.

  Christine Gritmon: Ah, I love all of this, Amy. I could geek out on this forever with you. For anyone else who would like to geek out with you, Amy, please tell the good folks at home where they can find you, why they should find you and what they will find there.

  Amy Walters: So I am mostly active on LinkedIn, so I'd recommend finding me on there. I am Amy Walters, and if you type in bloom creative that might help you find me there too. I'm the purple one if you hadn't already guessed from the discussion we had. If you want to find me on Instagram, it's at bloom.creative.uk. And then my website is bloom-creative.co.Uk. And what you'll find there is more of this kind of chat. Looking into tips and stuff around design and branding. A little bit of AI now too. And you can sign up to email newsletters and stuff if you would like to get even more.

  Christine Gritmon: Beautiful. Thank you so much, Amy. It has been a pleasure.

  Amy Walters: Thank you for having me.

  Christine Gritmon: And thank you for listening to Let's Talk About Brand. Whether you are listening to us on your podcast player of choice, or if you're watching the video podcast, hi, over on YouTube. Either way, please do subscribe, please leave a review if you liked it, and please do come back next week when I'll be here talking to another smart guest expert about a different element of personal branding.

  Bye!