S4 Ep06: Let’s Talk About Personal Brand Impact

Have you ever wanted to have a bigger impact on your personal brand? Have you thought the only brands that can have a big impact on our culture are the big consumer brands? Think again!

Today I’m talking with Emmanuel Probst about exactly that. One of the best ideas that we talk about is how your personal brand is a vessel for an idea. It is a way to relate to people and to express yourself and who you really are. 

To do that we first define what a brand and culture is and we discuss what it means to make a measurable change in a culture. We also talked about how you find the message that your brand will be the vessel for. Then we wrap it up with a marketing lesson from Picasso. 

Emmanuel Probst is the head of global thought leadership at Ipsos (one of the largest market research firms). He also teaches brand strategy at UCLA, and he's the author of “Assemblage: The Art and Science of Brand Transformation.” 

Tune in as we talk about how personal brands can make an impact: 

[00:00] Welcome Emmanual Probst!
[03:09] How do you define a brand?
[06:52] How do you define culture?
[08:22] At what point are you considered to have a personal brand?
[11:20] Should you follow your gut or data when it comes to marketing your brand
[14:02] Is there a separation between the person inside the brand and they things that are selling?
[17:51] How can you find the core message for your personal brand?
[21:20] What roles do influencers play? 
[24:46] What marketing lessons can we learn from Picasso?

Contact  Emmanuel Probst:
Linkedin: Emmanuel Probst
Book: Assemblage, the Art and Science of Brand Transformation

• Read the Show Transcript Here

  Christine Gritmon:

  Hello and welcome to Let's Talk About Brand I'm your host, Christine Gritmon and this podcast is coming at you every single week with a different guest expert talking about a different element of branding, especially personal branding. Today's guest, like many of our guests, has experience in both the worlds of consumer brands, and personal branding.

  He is the head of global thought leadership, among other things, at Ipsos, which is an enormous market research firm. He also teaches brand strategy at UCLA, and he's also an author. He is a Emmanuel Probst. His most recent book is called Assemblage, The Art and Science of Brand Transformation. And one of the things that we're going to be talking today, talking about today, is how in order to shape culture and kind of shift the world on its axis a little bit, You don't necessarily have to be a huge consumer brand.

  There are big personal brands doing that, and there are even small personal brands having their own impact on culture in their own way. It really ripples out. You can create a personal brand that really... It's a vessel for an idea which is something that we get into in the interview. So today we're going to talk about, first of all, what we're even talking about when we talk about brands, when we talk about personal brands, when we talk about culture and cultural impact, what are we talking about there?

  We're also going to talk about impact, about how you can make sure that your brand does have an impact no matter how big or small you are. We also get into something that I know, especially the smallest of new baby personal brands struggle with, which is How do you find that idea that you are a vessel for, and how do you start having an impact in your own world?

  You don't have to think on a global scale when it comes to the impact your personal brand is going to make, but thinking about the impact you want your personal brand to make is a very important part of the equation. So we're going to talk about all of that with Emanuel Probst here today. I'm so excited to have him on.

  All right, so without any further ado, we are going to bring him on.

  Hello, Emmanuel! Welcome!

  Emmanuel Probst: Christine, thank you for having me on the show.

  Christine Gritmon: Thanks for being on. So you actually reached out to me after an episode that I had last season with Marcus Collins. We're talking about branding and culture. And that actually taps into a bit of what we're going to be talking about today. We're going to be talking about how personal brands can shift culture in a really big way.

  When we were talking before we went live, we're talking a little bit about, some of those brands that aren't just consumer brands like Coca Cola. They are people, they are places, they are bigger than just a label on a product. So first, I'm gonna back up, and again, it's a really basic question, but through hundreds of interviews, there have been, slightly different nuances on this.

  I'm gonna ask you, Emmanuel, how do you define a brand?

  Emmanuel Probst: Yeah, the way I define a brand is the way they define the brand and they meaning the individuals, not even the consumers, meaning the audience. So it's a bit counterintuitive to put it this way, but as marketing professionals, we know so much about our brands. Anyway, we know so much about our category the way we define it. It's fine, it's useful, but the core definition of a brand is how do they define it. They meaning your audience. Definition of a brand is that. How do they perceive your company, your services, your products? It is their definition that matters most, not ours, and our job is to help shape this definition they have in their mind.

  Christine Gritmon: So one thing that we were talking about in the green room, you were pointing out how a brand is not just Coca Cola, Las Vegas is a brand, the Pope is a brand Bono from U2 is a brand. So what makes those three very different perspectives, what makes those brands, whereas, my friend's house cat is maybe not a brand what sort of makes that difference there in terms of being a brand in a larger sense?

  Emmanuel Probst: First off, they're all similar because they all try to stand out. Las Vegas competes with San Francisco, Los Angeles, and arguably destinations for gambling in Asia. And U2 competes with other bands, maybe like the Rolling Stones, just like Justin Timberlake might compete with Justin Bieber, and Rihanna might compete with other artists, right?

  So we all have a competitive set. If you will. What makes them different is their uniqueness. It's how distinctive they are. It is. It might be their distinctive brand assets in terms of Las Vegas. You can think of the lights and you can think of the strip and you can think of a Bellagio fountain. You can think of the Las Vegas sign.

  Paris is going to be the Eiffel Tower, and U2 is going to be not even about the music, but it's going to be about his demeanor and him wearing his glasses, for example. If you think about the Pope, he's very distinctive in terms of, again, I'm not getting into His religious beliefs even, but he is very unique in terms of the way he dresses and of the way he presents himself in front of an audience.

  So distinctive brand assets might be specific manifestations of a brand if you want. That can be clothing, that can be colors, that can be sounds, and then. What meaning do we associate to those different brands? And that conceptually is not different for Coca Cola than it is for Las Vegas or for the Pope.

  What are the meanings? What are the perceptions? What are the unique meanings and unique perceptions that we, the audience, Associate with these brands.

  Christine Gritmon: And that leads us very nicely into kind of the next place that I want to go with this, which is how brands, and especially personal brands, even individuals, can really impact culture. But before we dive into that, I would love to hear how you would define culture as someone who is involved in this kind of marketing landscape, which surely impacts your definition here.

  So how would you define culture?

  Emmanuel Probst: Yeah, I actually did quite a lot of research on this for my prior books. So for my first book, that was Brand hacks. And of course, I'm picking up on culture in my latest book assemblage. A culture is loosely defined world. And how we can summarize it is to say it has to do with your beliefs with customs, with the activities you engage in and with culture makers, the world around you. Specific brands help shape culture like U2 for example specific people, politics. So culture is about your core beliefs and Activities and the way these evolves around you in light of the current show and environment.

  Christine Gritmon: Now, as we know, there are certain people who have managed to have sufficiently Impactful and magnetic personal brand as to be able to impact not only the immediate people who engage with them and interact with them directly, but can have a larger impact that can impact something as large as a culture, though cultures can be all sizes, of course, as well.

  But what are we talking about when we even talk about a personal brand? Do you feel like everyone has a personal brand? Do you feel like there's a certain kind of tipping point where you become a personal brand? What kind of, what people get to define themselves as brands, is what I'm getting at here, in your opinion.

  Emmanuel Probst: Yeah, people get to define themselves as brands the moment they choose to. So everyone has the opportunity to create, define, grow a personal brand. Now it's up to you to do it and to decide if it's something you need to do. And with that said, in most occupations, you. Forgive me for being so blunt, but you need to sell, which means you need to create a personal brand.

  And what I mean by this is if you're a dentist or if you're an orthodontist, or if you're a lawyer, or if you're a personal trainer, or if you're a gardener, or if you're an accountant, all these are occupations where We as consumers have dozens of options to choose from. So though its not intuitive for your business and maybe your personality to create this personal brand, you're going to need to do this because those fields are just as competitive as everything else.

  THat's why a personal brand is important. That's what a personal brand is about. You create a personal brand the instant you choose to do so. and then a personal brand needs to be attuned to culture. And eventually, I guess the difference between a small and a bigger personal brand is It's ability to either embrace culture and eventually to make culture, to impact culture.

  In other words, are you jumping on the bandwagon and you're tuned to culture, which is great, which is good, which is what you need to do. And you take it a step further and you start defining culture as a change agent.

  Christine Gritmon: Absolutely. Now you work with Ipsos, which is, one of the world's leading market research agencies. So there's an analytical component in there as well. So I'm sure that you have seen, not just from the sort of gut driven vibes perspective, which tends to be honestly the way I tend to do things.

  things But also from an actual, data perspective, some people with personal brands are able to get to the point where they are really impacting things way beyond themselves. Putting on your market researcher hat for a moment. Cause you're in that world. How? How do people tend to do that to a point where it is actually statistically significant?

  What are some ways that personal change makers do make measurable change on culture from a marketing perspective? Does that make sense? I'm asking in a weird, circuitous way. But what are some ways that tend to tip that, to move that needle there?

  Emmanuel Probst: You said two things that are important. Christine, you said you do things with your guts, and then you spoke about measurement. When you're a really small brand and you get started, I think it's completely fine to do things with your gut. And in fact, you should always follow your instincts, your creativity, and building a personal brand means emphasizing who you are.

  It is not transforming you into someone you're not. And as such, you should, regardless of the data you have access to or not, you should follow your instinct and you should magnify your strengths. That's what building a personal brand is about. It doesn't matter how big your brain becomes, you should never lose sight of your own personality, your creativity, what your instinct guides you to do. Or else you just become a poster child and you really don't want to be this.

  Let's talk about measurement now. That's where the biggest brands have an advantage. Again, when I say a big brand, it might be Coca Cola, but it might be also Las Vegas, or it might be Justin Timberlake, Gordon Ramsay, and Taylor Swift.

  They're big because they have a lot of reach, and therefore they can get very scientific in terms of the outcomes they measure and whatnot.

  Silence. You said I work with Ipsos, and we're indeed one of the largest market research agencies in the world. I might surprise you, but conceptually the way you measure Coca Cola and the way you measure the impact of Taylor Swift is not that different.

  That is, how do you drive, how does the brand drive different attributes? What are the attributes people associate with the brand and what are the outcomes the brand drives. And so you measure these in isolation, but the way you do things are not conceptually that different for Taylor Swift than it be for Apple or REI or Patagonia.

  Christine Gritmon: Now, one thing that you mentioned before is that ultimately as personal brands, we are still trying to sell something, generally speaking. Whether we are an executive with a company, and we are representatives of that company. If we are solopreneurs like myself, and we are the product.

  If you're someone like Taylor Swift, where music is the product. But of course, it goes so far beyond music, in a case like hers, to become a cultural phenomenon. One thing that a lot of people really seem to worry about when they're first stepping forward as a personal brand is wondering about that balance between keeping it focused on the thing or the service or the whatever that they are trying to sell versus keeping it focused on who they are as a person. So what are some of your thoughts about how people can find that balance and about how that balance may even shift over time as their personal brand develops that critical mass that makes it magnetic?

  Emmanuel Probst: Yeah, I'll reflect on Taylor Swift and if I may on my personal experience and of publishing books. You said music is the product. And I may slightly rephrase this and say her music is a vessel for an idea. It's a vessel. It's a way to communicate the way she feels and a way for her to relate to people.

  But really what makes money is to sell tickets to her shows. Sure. She might make money from downloads, but that's literally anecdotal. If you compare, the money she makes from, basically feeling stadiums with dozens of thousands of people is the same thing in the book business. You can sell books, but frankly, the revenue.

  from books is anecdotal compared to the revenue that comes from consulting or from speaking engagements or workshops and so on and so forth. And her music is a vessel for an idea and a way to relate to people. And a book is a vessel for an idea and a way to relate to people and to express yourself and who you really are.

  And. Make yourself unique, different, and relatable at the same time so that you can sell the product. So another way to put it and to really simplify things is Taylor Swift doesn't have to sell herself in her songs. She just had to tell people the way she feels so that in turn she can sell 200, 400. 3, 000, 30, 000 tickets.

  So it's the same thing as a practitioner. If you're a cosmetic surgeon, you need to be omnipresent on social media because people will care more about your social media activity and following than they will about your qualifications. And on social media, you're going to show. your art and how your personality translates in your relationship with your patients so that then people book appointments and surgeries with you procedures, I should say.

  Christine Gritmon: I love what you said about how it's not about, the external product that is being sold so much as being a vessel for an idea. That is fantastic. That also can be really intimidating for a lot of people, you know, kind of figuring out. Go to Simon Sinek, start with why, but that's really the essence of a personal brand, really.

  I like to think of it as your job is task based. But your brand, who you are, is not task based. It is based in something deeper that is transferable between different jobs, between different skills. What are some ways people can maybe get to the essence of what the underlying idea that they are a vessel for could be when figuring out their personal brand?

  Because not everyone's going out there to change the world. Some people are like, I just want to sell stuff. But when it comes down to it, a powerful personal brand, no matter what it is you are nominally selling. is going to have a much greater impact and be a lot more flexible if you are indeed a vessel for an idea.

  So what are some ways people can get started identifying what that could be for them? Because it's inside of them, but it's hard to find sometimes.

  Emmanuel Probst: yeah, you used a an important word. You said it can be intimidating and I get that and I agree. There's a good news. The good news is in the world we live in now, in the world we live in today, it's okay to embrace vulnerability and imperfections and differences. And you don't have, not only you don't have to be perfect, but in fact, you don't want to.

  There is no longer this perception, and there shouldn't be, that success is about being tough, and being the big guy, and with the big voice, and all that. No. Just reflect on who you really are. How do you do this? Just think of the things you like to do, and maybe the movies you like to watch, and the books you like to read, the podcasts you like to listen to, and think of the attributes that define you. You don't have to go too deep. I'm not going to take you through a psychology session here, nor would I be qualified to do but really, what do you like to do? What are the colors you like? What is the type of music you like? What are the tones you like? And That is how you're going to shape this unique personal brand of yours.

  But again, I insist that imperfect is perfect. That is, authenticity is most important to people. And let me link this to very big brands. They know this, and they enable this in their marketing now. If you think of Dove, Dove is a massive brand. It's a uni level brand. It's a global brand. Dove embarked a few years ago on what they call the Dove Beauty Project, to reveal people's real beauty.

  What this means is instead of using perfect models in their advertisements, they started using everyday people. And that was a few years ago, and they continue on this trajectory. Most recently, Ogilvy, that is a large advertising agency, Ogilvy in the UK pledged to stop using Photoshop. That is to stop retouching people and pictures to make them perfect.

  So the point I'm making here is even the biggest brands in the world are embracing imperfections. And the good news is As a personal brand, as an individual, let alone when you're getting started, is you just have to embrace this. You don't have to walk it backwards from perfection to imperfection.

  You're already authentic. You're already vulnerable. You're already imperfect. So now you just have to push this forward and bring it to your audience. Just like Taylor Swift does.

  Christine Gritmon: That actually brings me to something that's been in a special interest of mine lately, which is that, big brands are starting to recognize more and more that one of the kind of hidden superpowers they can really tap into is their people. They're actual humans but that could be a bit of a tricky thing for some of them because I know the old school mentality was if our people are out there doing their own thing and being their own strong personal brands, first of all, other companies might poach them.

  Second of all, they might be, too preoccupied with building their own name that they're, neglecting our brand or whatever. But I think that's changing. I think brands are recognizing more and more that the fact that a company is made up of humans can be an incredible force. And then, of course, there's the fact that more and more brands are working with influencers who are their own independent personal brands.

  I'm curious about your take on both of those phenomena.

  The idea of activating your people and recognizing the strong, incredible, potentially very influential people who you have within your own organization, but then also borrowing influence from professional influencers. How do you feel both of these things are really impacting the way that brands can help shape culture?

  Emmanuel Probst: Yeah. So first, Christine, that's a very good news for our listeners today is you don't have to walk backwards. You said big brands are trying to become more personal, more authentic, closer to people. Again, if you're an individual, you're already personal. You also spoke about big brands trying to empower their people to be the voice of the brand, if you will.

  The truth is, This is very hard to scale. And yes, brands are trying to work in that direction, but it's very hard to control. And that's a problem you really don't have if you're a sole practitioner or if you're a small business with, 10, 20, 30, 100 employees, and you have 1,2,3,4,5 locations. It's a very different deal when you're Starbucks and you operate 11, 000 stores.

  From the get go, that's a problem you don't have to solve. Now you spoke about influencers and the original value proposition of influencers is that is to reduce the social distance between the brand and the audience. Silence. What this means is we like influencers because they're relatable.

  In other words, they are just like your neighbor and they live. Or at least they're supposed to live in a place just like yours, in sharp contrast with the likes of George Clooney or big personalities that we don't live like. 99. 5 percent of us, if you will.

  Now about hiring influencers to work with you, enabling that reach, be careful what you wish for.

  Number one they are following and how many people they can really reach. Look under the lid. Is that real? What is the level of engagement? They have with their audience. And number two, what is the fit between both influencers and your product? And in other words, you don't want just any influencer to represent your brand.

  What other brands do they work with? What is their personal narrative? What is their creative style? And. Does this all align with your, when your product, the message you want to convey with your audience.

  So last but not least is I would look towards smaller influencers when they're not as expensive, but also they have a much higher engagement, much better intimacy with their audience, with their followers.

  And last but not least, But they are likely not overwhelmed with brands, and therefore they will give your brand more of a voice, if you will.

  Christine Gritmon: Now, this is going to be a little bit of a spoiler for your latest book, Assemblage, but one thing that I was very intrigued about when I read some of the bullet points on it is, you mentioned what Picasso knew, and what all marketers need to learn. I'm very intrigued by that bit. So hopefully people will still go out and read Assemblage, even if they get this spoiler, but I'm intrigued by that.

  So what did Picasso, who was inarguably an incredible cultural shifting personal brand. What did he know that that we as marketers should learn?

  Emmanuel Probst: Yeah. By the way, Christine, about Assemblage, I have two good news. Not only people can read it, but they can also listen to the book. It's available as an Audible format. That's the first good news. The second good news is I'm not the one reading the book. And they can listen to the book without the accent

  But back to your question, Christine, there is an important chapter in this book called The Assemblers and what Picasso knew Well, the artists we admire the most, like Picasso, they're talented, but not always in the ways we think, meaning the real talent is often assembling. To deliver on the artistic vision rather than necessarily creating the art themselves.

  So what I mean by this is the likes of Andy Warhol, for example Jeff Koons today. They have plenty of people working for them. The same applies in cooking. Gordon Ramsay doesn't cook. Alain Ducasse Doesn't cook. The same applies in music whereby a famous dj, let's say like David gta, by definition, assembles samples from other musics.

  Phil Williams does not know how to read music. That's a fact. That's not gossip. He had to admit under oath that he didn't know how to read music, yet he sold millions and millions of records. Digital Kaen is the same thing. He's a music producer. So what all these people have in common. Is the pick and choose from talents, from samples, from culture, what makes sense and the symbol the samples is bits and bobs, if you will, into a new product, into a new service, into a new narrative, into a new story that they're going to bring to their audience.

  The second thing we can learn from Picasso is, yeah, he's known for his great paintings. But beyond that, he was a prolific artist, also creating china and pottery and sculptures. And the point being that he had such a wide range of products, such a wide range of items that he could sell to his audience.

  He started poor, but by the way, he died really rich. The point being is, yeah, he could sell a 50, 70, 200, 000 paintings, along with plates and lithographs that were more accessible to a wider audience. As such, he was one of the first marketers to exemplified to pioneer, I will say, the concept of line expansion.

  Christine Gritmon: So I'd like to hear a bit more about that line extension, because the thing is, when we think of Picasso, most people do really think about his paintings and stuff. And that actually brings me brings us to another point, which is that, It's not always about the one thing that you do.

  Sometimes the thing that you do that kind of leads the way allows people to discover the other things. But, line extensions, I'd like to hear a little bit more about what you mean by that. Especially when it comes to things like that.

  Emmanuel Probst: A great analogy, very relevant, I believe, is the fashion industry. In the fashion industry, when you look at Christian Dior or Balmain or Balenciaga, fill the blank, they have catwalks twice a year and they impress a very small crowd of people attending those catwalks, maybe 150 people, if that, in Paris, Milan, New York. How many dresses do they really sell? A dozen, if that. And those are really expensive and beautiful by all means, but not really practical. The point is not to sell dresses at catwalks. The point is to demonstrate the creativity to make culture. Influence culture in that process to get as much media attention as you can.

  So that in turn, you can sell in the case of Balmain, a 650 t shirt, or you can sell some perfume or some cologne or some handbag, or some ready to wear items. That are very scalable and extremely profitable. And so the point is, as a Customer, when I buy that T-shirt or when I buy that perfume, I'm being part of the dream.

  I'm being part of this aspiration, this creativity, this identity, this culture that is on the catwalk and it's my way of accessing this. So that's really. How you can think of it in terms of world architecture is you have those leading products that ironically don't really sell. They do, but not that much, but they're here to build this perception.

  It's the same thing in cooking. You have very few 3 Star Michelins in the world. In France, I think you have about 11 or 12 of them. And you have a few dozens in the U. S. That's really not that many. Gordon Ramsay doesn't make, I mean he does, but his main source of profit is certainly not that three star Michelin that he has in London.

  The point is to sell cookbooks and to sell TV shows and to sell speaking engagements and to sell workshops and of course to drive traffic in burger restaurants that are way more profitable and move way more volume down. Any 3 Star restaurant you can think of.

  Christine Gritmon: All right, so we've talked about artists and large brands and things like that and people who have become kind of larger than life, connected to this larger kind of cultural zeitgeist and shifted it with their ideas. Now let's take it down as we round this interview up, let's talk about a few things that a person listening at home, maybe they're just trying to do their business.

  They're not trying to sell out stadiums or anything like that. When it comes down to it, as humans, a lot of us do feel a calling to be a vessel for an idea. So what are a few things on a smaller scale that someone listening right now could do to get started in seeing their personal brand and seeing themselves being a bit more as, not just sales driven, but being more kind of a vessel for those ideas that they hold dear in a way that will at least shape their world and the world immediately around them.

  What are some things people can look at and start doing to get started there?

  Emmanuel Probst: Yeah, I think you want to do two things. Two things that you can do immediately. Number one, what are the five, six, seven unique attributes that define you? Or maybe those attributes are not unique in and of themselves, but they make you unique in combination. So what are the 5, 6, 7 things that you'd like people to remember about you if you meet them for the first time at a cocktail party? That's going to be the foundation for your personal brand. And then you're going to emphasize that authenticity. In terms of activation, if you will, that's where you're going to use those, what we call performance marketing and the performance metrics, meaning you're going to look At how many reactions you generated, how many people are subscribing to your content, and then lower in your funnel, how many leads you generated, it can be how many appointments you generated, and how many of those appointments did you convert.

  into a deal. And then those clients of yours, you're going to want to drive recommendations. You're going to want to drive word of mouth one because this is free advertising for you and two because people trust their friends and family way more so than they trust advertising. So you're going to want to work on this core client base if you will so they advocate and spread the good world for you So that's really how you on a very small scale.

  That's how you're going to Work out your funnel you define your brand strategy and I almost want to say if you really get started don't spend tons of time. Don't overthink it. Spend some time on this, but don't overthink this. Who am I, and who do I want to appear to be to my audience? What are the attributes that make me unique in, in combination, right?

  And then you go to markets and you analyze who's Performance metrics that I just described. Now, later on, when you grow your brand, when you become bigger, you're going to want to worry more about your competitive set and how they articulate their message and how you can difference use and how you can compete with them and all that.

  But that would be 3, 6, 9 months down the line. It's not something you need to do today.

  Christine Gritmon: All right thank you so much for all of this. This has been wonderful and definitely very inspirational, honestly.

  I'm excited to play a bigger game with my own personal brand now, and I hope everyone listening is as well. All right, Emmanuel, so tell us. Where can we find you? Why should we find you?

  And what will we find there?

  Emmanuel Probst: Really liking your questions Christine, they're clearly articulated, but also very different from what I usually hear on podcasts. Where can we find me? I'm on LinkedIn at Emmanuel Probst, and you can also find my book Assembly, which is the Art and Science of Brand Transformation. It's available in bookstores.

  Importantly, it's available on Amazon. You can buy the hardcover. You can also access The electronic version of the book and as we said earlier last but not least you can listen to the book if you want Why well because I produce ideas For brands every single day, that is, if you subscribe to my content on LinkedIn, for example, you will access tons of ideas several times a week.

  Every day you will see my comments on the largest brands and several times a week you will benefit from the guidance I provide. And why? Because I combine academic. Knowledge through my books and my studying and obviously my academic background with practitioners experience of spending 20 plus years counseling some of the biggest brands in the world.

  So I bring this knowledge and this expertise to you. I was going to say at a fraction of the cost, which is the price of a book, or even for free, if you want to just read what I publish on LinkedIn.

  Christine Gritmon: Fantastic. Thank you so much for being here and I hope everyone is inspired to get out there and make whatever change, make some ripples, make an impact and who knows how far out into the culture it can ripple out. Thank you very much for being here, Emmanuel.

  Emmanuel Probst: Thank you so much, Christine. Thank you to our listeners for being with us today.

  Christine Gritmon: And thank you for listening to Let's Talk About Brand, whether you are listening on your podcast player of choice or if you're joining us for the video podcast on YouTube. Either way, please do make sure to subscribe, leave a comment or a review if you like it, and be sure to tune in next week when I will be right here with another very smart guest expert talking about another specific angle of branding.

  Bye!

S4 Ep05: Let's Talk About Design for Personal Brands

What comes to mind when you think of personal brand design? Is it fonts? Colors? Logos? Images? Templates? All of the above? Or maybe none of the above? 

That is not all that uncommon, a lot of people when they think of design, think of a consumer brand or something like that, or, some big corporation, but personal brands also need some design love too.

Today I’m talking with brand designer, Amy Walker from Bloom Creative about, what goes into brand design, what type of visual branding is useful for a personal brand to have, what brand parameters make sense for a personal brand to have and so much more!

While there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to personal brand design, Amy has worked with many people to design their personal brands, so she's going to tell us her expert opinion on what are good things to think about when it comes to designing your personal brand.

Tune in as we talk about the following design choices for personal brands: 

[00:00] Welcome Amy Walters!
[02:36] What is the core of every personal brand design?
[04:05] How does color psychology play into selecting a brand color?
[10:22] What is important when it comes to visual branding for personal brands?
[13:03] Should personal brands have a logo?
[18:08] How do photography and brand images come into play with personal branding?
[20:39] What are some of the digital assets that are needed for a personal brand design? 
[24:11] What is included in a personal brand design guide? 
[26:03] What are the limits for colors and fonts in a personal brand?
[30:03] What should be taken into consideration as a brand evolves over time?

Contact Amy Walters
Linkedin: Amy Walters
Instagram: Amy Walters
Website: Bloom Creative

• Read the Show Transcript Here

  Christine Gritmon: Hello, welcome to Let's Talk About Brand. I'm your host, Christine Gritmon, coming at you every single week, talking with a different guest expert about branding, especially personal branding.

  Today, I'm speaking to designer Amy Walters of Bloom Creative. I saw Amy speak in London at a digital women event.

  And she was talking about design and AI at that point which is something she talks a lot about, but that is not the topic of today's show. What I really wanted to talk to Amy about today was about design and personal branding. A lot of people, when they think of design, they think of, consumer brand or something like that, or, some big corporation, but personal brands also need some design love too.

  So Amy and I are going to talk today about, first of all, what goes into brand design, because a brand is not the design itself. So Amy definitely is very thoughtful with her process. She's going to give us some really great insights as to the things we need to give thought to before just slapping on a color and a font and calling it a brand.

  We're also going to talk about what type of visual branding is useful for a personal brand to have. We generally don't have things like packaging or brochures or any of that. What sort of things do we need designed? Should we work with a designer on? But also what sort of brand parameters make sense for a personal brand to have?

  Do you need a logo? Do you need colors, fonts? How many? All of that. While there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to brand design, Amy has worked with many people to design their personal brands, so she's going to tell us her expert opinion on sort of what are good things to think about when it comes to designing your personal brand.

  Without any further ado, let's bring her on! Come on down, Amy Walters!

  Amy Walters: I love the applause.

  Christine Gritmon: Who doesn't? My goodness. And of course, one fabulous way to warrant applause is to have fabulous branding. So I'm actually going to dive right in with you, Amy.

  A lot of people, when they think about branding, They think about the design elements. They think about a color or, a logo or font treatments, things of that nature.

  But as we were discussing before the show, a brand really is so much more than that. And really a brand is what goes into all of those decisions ultimately. So Amy, as a brand designer, when you're working with someone on designing the visual elements of their branding, what are some of those things that really need to be nailed down first, before you can decide how to represent that brand visually?

  Amy Walters: Yeah, absolutely. It goes so much further than just what looks pretty and what's on trend so what I do with clients is talk to them about their vision for what it is they're doing so whether that's personally or in their business what it is that they are doing And what their vision and their values are and the same for their target audience because that's important too. And once you've got that sort of picture behind the heart of their business, why did they start it?

  What's their passion or their project if it's not a business? And then also what their target audience like to see, then that all feeds into the branding and the visual appearance that has so much more meaning than just, we chose this because it resonated with us on some level because it looked pretty. It gives so much more meaning and that in turn, makes a brand more memorable because we as humans love to put meaning behind things.

  So if we can see why it's been done, we're going to remember it more and we're going to be able to relate more with that brand and that appearance.

  Christine Gritmon: To that point about us, you know, automatically imbuing things with meaning and imbuing colors and shapes and things of that nature with meaning, what are some examples of how that translates into the type of visual branding that you would use? What are some things that we already imbue with meaning that can serve as that sort of shortcut to people for what we stand for?

  Amy Walters: Yeah, so colors that you touched on is a brilliant one for that. There's something called color psychology, which is the psychology behind color. When you see a color How does it make you feel? What does it make you want to do? Is it an encouraging color? And so looking into the color psychology, you can then choose colors that suit your brand your niche your industry, but also that help you to stand out. So there are colors that mean sort of happy, you know happy meanings and there are colors that are perhaps more serious and those things are really worth considering.

  I think it's just it's so interesting when you dive into the psychology behind color and what each and every single one means but also on another level to that. Whilst there are meanings for, if you think the whole of society, they'll see red and that means danger, or they'll see red and that means excitement there are also meanings that are personal to every individual person so you're not going to know what those are. But you might find that your brand really resonates with a particular target client because for them personally the color means something even more than what it would mean for any other person walking down the street.

  So color is a brilliant place to start, and I suppose in a way, one of those shortcuts. Because we all know what colors are, we all know that there are infinite colors and we all know the colors of the rainbow.

  So if we start with colors and how the meaning of the colors link with the meaning of your business and the passion of your business and what you do, then that is a great place to start with your branding.

  Christine Gritmon: Hadn't meant to go this personal this early, but Amy, Purple, Bloom Creative, your company goes with Purple. Tell me how you came to that decision.

  Amy Walters: Yeah, I love the story behind my branding. It's something that I thought a lot about when I started out as a freelancer, I was using colors that I, you know, I liked and they did resonate with me and they had meaning. But actually now that I've gone purple and with Bloom Creative. There's so much more behind that.

  So the story behind the purple is that when I was starting my business, there was a lot of influence of my grandma. My grandma sadly is no longer with us. She passed away in 2014, but she was a creative and she was somebody who I aspire to because she was always giving, she was generous with her time.

  She was so kind and she had the creative side of being an excellent painter and being able to create things out of wool, like knitted that it was just brilliant. So she was super creative. So I looked at the color purple because that was her favorite color. She always wore purple. And then once I dove into it further, I realised that the colour purple has so much more going on in terms of the colour psychology. And it's a colour I'm drawn to, I love the colour purple too.

  And there's no surprise. because something I find that people have with their kind of their brand colors, often they'll choose them. And then when they look at the color psychology afterwards, they'll realize that it's connected somehow with their business and their passions. Probably nine times out of 10, I find that happens.

  And when I've shared on social about it, people comment. So you might find that. So with this color psychology behind purple, there's a lot to do with kind of creativity which makes sense. But there's also something about the color purple, which is it's one of the richest colors that doesn't fade over time.

  And I think that really describes what I do in terms of enhancing people's brands and trying to create brands that don't fade. So it's not a visual brands that will last you a few years, and then you'll have to refresh it or start again, even, but it's a brand that you can start and build from, and it will last you for a huge length of time and be, enhanced and lasting instead of just something quick and simple and not complex and up and out there. But then in a year's time, you realize you want to redo it. So that kind of everlasting purple color really connects with that too. So that's you know the purple side.

  Christine Gritmon: I love that. I love how much meaning you have in there for that purple color choice. And the interesting thing is... Someone else who uses purple may have a totally different meaning behind purple for it, but it also works. I know Julie Catino, who was actually the very first let's talk about brand guest back in 2020.

  Her whole thing is brand twist. It's about getting influences from outside places. And she chose purple because it's a twist of, blue and red or blue and pink. They're the primary colors that are secondary in her brand, but the primary brand color is that secondary purple because it's a twist.

  Oh my goodness, I love it. I chose red because it was my favorite color, but since then I've added the layers of meaning to it about excitement. Excitement and passion and enthusiasm is all my superpower. It works with the retro thing. It's so easy to pull in with, lipstick and accessories.

  There's all sorts of reasons why it works. But the reason I chose it to begin with is just cause it just fit for me. It just resonated. It was something I did naturally and I could add in those elements of meaning later. But it is important to give thought to those things if you're going to really define a brand.

  Which actually brings me to something I really want to discuss with you. A lot of times when we think of branding, when we think of. Not just visual branding, but branding in general, coming up with a brand, what a brand even is. We often think of a consumer brand or, a big B2B company or something of that nature.

  But here at Let's Talk About Brand and in my own work, I'm all about the personal brand and personal branding varies pretty wildly. Some people feel like they do need some sort of visual branding. Some people don't bother with the visual branding. Not everyone has to be, bathed in it like I am.

  First of all, I'm going to ask for your thoughts on visual branding for personal brands, because some people like having a logo. Some people are fine with just a color palette. Some people just like consistency with the overall design. Vibe. What do you feel when it comes to visual branding for personal brands and why it is useful and even why it may not be useful?

  Amy Walters: Yeah, so again you hit kind of the nail on the head in terms of consistency So consistency is one of the things that is really important. I think when it comes to your visual personal branding. So if you do start to use a color palette it's important to stick to that and use it consistently.

  And of course, over time, you can change it if there is reason to, but being consistent and showing up consistently, it's going to be one of those things that makes you a few things. It makes you trustworthy because you show up how people expect you to look and it makes you noticed and remembered. So people see you and they go, Oh yeah, that's you.

  But then also when they need you further down the line, they think I need you. So as an example, I was having a chat, actually with my auntie I don't often see her and we had a chat at a family party recently. And she said, Oh, I nearly got some work your way because I wanted to recommend you because my work were having a rebrand.

  And she said, and I got so excited that I said, I know a purple business who can do that. So for her, as soon as she heard that there was an opportunity for work, she immediately thought of me and my purple business, as she put it. Using your branding consistently, whether that's colours, whether that's fonts, whether that's carousels that look consistently the same and are engaging in design, you will be remembered.

  And then thought of when people need your services. So I think that's a really good pro to having your branding defined. In terms of personal branding, there are, cons if you go a bit too far and you spend too much time perfecting your look, because naturally as humans we are not perfect and you don't want to, as your personal brand look to be the perfect person.

  Because people don't follow that online, they don't want to see the perfect, they want to see the real. So as long as you're balancing that with meaningful branding that works for you, that resonates with you, and then not taking it too far and being too perfect about it, that you either don't post, or you post too infrequently, or, you restrict yourself and your content because of that, then you can create that perfect balance with your personal brand.

  Christine Gritmon: If I may extrapolate from that, from what you're saying, so consistent is better than perfect, but doing it at all is even more important than consistent. You don't have to feel boxed in by the elements that you've defined if they make you unable to be a person.

  Amy Walters: Exactly, absolutely exactly that. It's that kind of balance and the balance you have to keep an eye on all of the time.

  Christine Gritmon: Now, how do you feel about logos for personal brands? Because I know that's a tricky one. At the beginning of my business, I had a logo, I didn't really like it, and I almost never used it. And I have since developed a logo that I love that is literally based on my own signature. It's very close to my own signature and it has the retro vibe, but it took years for me to get to a point where I had something I enjoyed using and that was flexible enough to use also because my old one only kind of worked in a square. How do you feel about personal brands and logos? Do they need them? Do they generally not and what should people consider when considering one of those for their personal brand?

  Amy Walters: Yeah, so I think it changes all of the time per person. So it's definitely an individual answer. So for some people having a logo like yours that's a more signature logo, that works for them because it means they can brand stuff up that Does require a logo, whether that's on a business card or on a website.

  So there are places that logos can be used for personal branding. That being said I think definitely the people i've worked with in terms of personal branding we have chosen to stick more to that sort of signature handwriting style because that feels the most personal. So it makes sense that your logo is based on your signature because that's a very personal approach to a personal branding logo. I think though, with whether or not you should have one, you can do without one.

  So there are a number of social platforms you'll probably be on. If you are on those social platforms, often you'll need a profile picture. And there is a lot of kind of discussion out there as to whether your profile picture should be your photo or should be your logo. But I think we can all agree we're leaning more towards photos, especially when it's personal branding.

  So if you're using your photo and your face, that sort of, I suppose, becomes your logo in that's the face of what you do. And that's what people recognize in the way that a logo might be the face of a business. So there are pros and cons. And like I say, it's completely individualized as to whether a logo would be worth it for you and your personal brand.

  Work it out whether that would be something that you need and why. If you're just doing it to have a logo for logo's sake, probably not the reason.

  Christine Gritmon: I absolutely love what you said about how your face can almost function as the logo. I always encourage that when people are comfortable doing it, especially if they're operating as a service provider or something where the business name is Their name, I'm Christine Gritman, Inc. And so Christine Gritman is the product is the service is what you're getting.

  I'm curious as to how you decided to go with a name for your business with Bloom Creative instead of just going with Amy Walters. How did you make that decision?

  Amy Walters: I actually started as Amy Walters. So when I started freelancing in 2018, I started as Amy Walters, then art and design. And I had two parts of my business and it was all very much me. I then went through some business coaching, around this time last year. So I'm coming up to Bloom Creatives one year birthday.

  So around this time last year, I was coming to the end of my coaching. And in that I had discovered that actually by using my name, I was limiting myself because I was weaving my own identity with my business. And for me as a person that didn't work so well. And I needed a way to express myself creatively in a business that had its own identity, but I could also be Amy Walters, who does her creative hobbies and has her side hustles at the same time.

  But I wasn't always Amy Walters and everything was part of that. So that's why I then started looking at having a name. That's when I added purple in too and bloom comes from the idea that I help businesses to bloom So you start, you know as a bud and then you'll bloom and then you'll be blossoming and I help businesses to bloom And continue to bloom so businesses who are already functioning who are already successful, but perhaps even the businesses are blooming, but their visual identity is as if they've just started out and they need to bring that up to show that they are blooming.

  So it's that kind of thing. That's where bloom came from. And of course creative. I decided because I was Amy Walters, art and design, and that felt that I was even restricting myself further by just art and design, and I wanted to widen it to creatives. So I did start as Amy Walters and I built my brand there and then I changed it about a year ago

  Christine Gritmon: And I also want to go back to something else that you pointed out about branding and personal brands, which is pictures. You're not a brand photographer and I've certainly had some of those on and will continue to, but I imagine that some of the design work you do. With clients, especially for personal brands incorporates photography on some level.

  Do you work with photographers and clients together to figure out what's going to be on brand, what's going to work for the designs that you're doing for them? How does photography beyond the simple basic headshot, factor into the design work that you're able to do or that you love to do for clients, especially when it comes to a personal brand?

  Amy Walters: Personal brand photography is so much more exciting than just your standard headshot. I work with a photographer who does my brand photography and she is brilliant at having those discussions with clients about what is it that you do? Who is it that you are as a person?

  And what do you want to show in these photos? So if I give a personal example, for me, the last photo shoot we had it was my first one since becoming Bloom. So since becoming Purple, and I really wanted to make a thing of that. So I went to Tesco's one evening when all of the flowers are yellow stickered and I bought All of the purple ones and then I got myself some purple paper confetti and I found everything purple I had and of course all of my purple clothing And then I made sure that not only did I include my purple because that was the big thing that I wanted to display But also I included my personality. So we had some photos where my head is poking out from the side of stacked up board games.

  And we were a bit selective where we chose the board games that had some floral element to them so that they worked. But it was to show that part of my personality in being creative is that I love to problem solve and I love to play board games. And I've got tons of flowers at home and I've got a kind of water jug that sprays and I've put on there bloom where you are planted.

  And so of course that works with Bloom Creative. So we had a kind of shot of me spraying that. And that's all the different ways that you can build not only your branding in terms of the purple and the style, but also build in your personality. She is a fab person who I recommend clients to, and she can then draw out a bit further than the stuff that I would say.

  I would give some guidance in terms of perhaps the style of images. And whether they need to be particularly edited or quite natural looking and the kind of lighting and stuff But she would take it and go so much further with the personality side of things weaving that with the design which is just fabulous to see and the results look on brand.

  Christine Gritmon: I love that. Now, when someone is going in to have stuff designed for their personal brand, what are some things that you would typically design for someone's personal brand? What sort of digital assets? I don't know if there are any physical materials, but what are some things, I mean, I know you can run the gamut, but what are the usual things that you recommend someone who is building their personal brand out with a designer have in their design arsenal.

  Amy Walters: So generally it would be the digital stuff. So a website would be something I'd recommend especially if that person as a personal brand, perhaps are representing a few different companies. So they're perhaps the CEO of a company and the director of another, and they've got a passion project and they want somewhere to be themselves in all that they do.

  They might then need a website. And that's something that I would work with them to design and have a website that really encompasses their personal brand and lists all of the things they can do. Perhaps they're a speaker as well. And you know, everything, entrepreneurs tend not to stick to one thing. A website can draw all of that together. In a similar way I would then also recommend something like a set of social media banners So that then their personal brand can be really recognizable on their social profiles. So linkedin is an excellent example of that where you go on someone's page and before you even scroll to read their stuff you see their photo and then you see that banner and making use of that banner space in a really clever design way that is on brand and that shows what you do is something that I think is really important in terms of personal branding.

  Christine Gritmon: Another thing that I just want to point out also on LinkedIn that I know people have noticed on mine recently is that in addition to that banner, And your profile image. You also can choose a handful of highlighted pieces of content, and you can choose, you can upload images to those as well. It might be a website link to something.

  And maybe there's a default image that goes in there. You can override that and upload an image of your own. So that's just yet another opportunity you have to really drive that visual branding home on something like a LinkedIn profile.

  Amy Walters: Absolutely.

  Christine Gritmon: So what are some other things that people should be looking at? You mentioned social. Do you do templates for people? Do you help people with that? And what sort of things do people tend to need in that regard?

  Amy Walters: Templates are something that they save time and they help you to look consistent. So it comes back to what we were talking about earlier in terms of that consistency balanced with not being perfect. If you've got a template, it's ready to go and you can fill it in. So quite often either on LinkedIn or Instagram, you'll share a carousel, perhaps of top tips or of a client testimony or something like that.

  You can then use those templates. So yes, I'll design templates for clients for those kinds of things. And we'll look at what content they share regularly that can be templated and then what content perhaps can't be templated and then we'll look at some brand guidelines around those which is the phrase for a document full of ways in which to use certain colors, certain fonts, some do's and don'ts but that there's obviously flexibility because social media again does not need to be absolutely perfect.

  So yeah, templates is a brilliant one.

  Christine Gritmon: How much flexibility should people have generally? Again, no hard and fast rules, but generally speaking, I know a lot of us have heard about design guidelines, brand guidelines, and it's good to have some of those. But what do you recommend people define as part of their visual branding and how tightly should they define it?

  I know some people have whole color palettes, some people have one color. What do you like to do with people when it comes to defining a personal brand's design guidelines?

  Amy Walters: So defining colors is important, and I think being self aware of how much creativity and creative license you like to have for yourself can help you decide how many brand colors to have. So you might be someone who has one or two, or you might be someone who has a batch of additional colors.

  Secondary tertiary colors that you can dip in and out of so that if you perhaps get a bit bored. I think creatives do have the tendency. So if you are a creative with a personal brand, sometimes have the tendency to get a bit bored with doing the same thing. Then you can dip into those secondary, those tertiary colors.

  Having that awareness about yourself can help you to build a personal brand that works for you and isn't restricted. And I'd also include. fonts in personal branding and that just helps with consistency. If you're always changing up your fonts, you run the risk of looking probably a little bit more amateur than you are.

  And you're not going to be recognized quite so much because people will see you appearing differently every time. And again, that could break some of that trust because you're not appearing how they expect to see you. But outside of colors and fonts, you can go as deeply as looking at exactly the style of images and the style of videos you create, and even the transitions that you use.

  But if you're consistently showing up with your colors and your fonts, I would say that's where you need to really stick to. And then the other stuff, you can have some flexibility. But knowing what you need as a person when you're designing stuff or what you need when you're sharing stuff, if you have a designer do it for you is really helpful to then know how much flexibility to give yourself in those guidelines or to tell your designer to give you in those guidelines.

  Christine Gritmon: Around how many colors and fonts do you recommend defining as part of that style guide? Again, for a personal brand, so it's not going to be a huge consumer corporate brand that maybe has as many applications for it as a personal brand may, but at the same time, just one font, just one color, what do you think is a good kind of family to have in there?

  Amy Walters: When it comes to fonts, I often suggest two. So I have, it's a strange connection, but it works to remember it. Two in one shampoo and conditioner, I say have no more than two fonts in one design because then it becomes overwhelming. So likewise in your branding, if you're smaller and not that huge corporate entity, then you can have that two fonts in one brand.

  And so that helps you then to not. To not look too busy to not have too many things going on to not have too much to choose from and help with your consistency and those two fonts generally, you would expect one to perhaps be a bit more bold and used as titles or kind of the hook of a post and then the other to be more perhaps sans serif or which doesn't have all those fancy lines sticking out of the letters.

  So it's very clean and use that for perhaps paragraph text or going into more detail. And that not only helps to get attention with the first font but it also helps when a user is looking at your carousels. They're able to see the top points that are in bold that are the different font and they can see that immediately and go.

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with all of that or oh, That makes sense Oh i'm learning something new and then they get to one and they might want to read a bit more. They can then see the smaller cleaner font underneath and go there to read more. So two fonts as a general rule for personal branding would work well for most people. And then when it comes to colours, again, I would say one or two as a main colour.

  Quite often you'll see people using a single colour, like you and your red, and me and my purple. But then I don't know about you with your red, but I have a few shades of my purple. And then I have some very tertiary colours that kind of come into play that are yellows and oranges and blues. So that if I do need the colours of the rainbow, I've got ones that I default to.

  So you could have your kind of main one or two, and then a... few, perhaps up to five of the secondary ones. But again, it's so hard without individualizing it to have a hard and fast rule.

  Christine Gritmon: Absolutely. I gave a lot of thought to this myself, especially in 2020 in August, 2020, I got a little more serious with defining my visual brand. I looked at. So many combinations of kind of that showy font and that secondary font before I came to these ones. And I defined my shade of red.

  My shade of red is one specific shade of red, but my secondary colors are really just black and white. I'm about to start mixing in some tertiary brand colors. Simply because, I am me, and I feel like a human brand should evolve and follow the person. And there have been a couple colors I've been wearing a lot of lately.

  I've gotten very into dark blue, and I've gotten into this kind of, golden tan color. And those both look good with red. So stay tuned for that. folks. A little bit of that mixed in with the red and black and white of the classic Coca Cola whatnot look.

  Amy Walters: And I love that. And it goes to show that a personal brand isn't necessarily defined and then you have to have it forever. It can grow with you.

  Christine Gritmon: Yeah, so I actually, I think that's the last thing I want to ask you about, which is personal brand... Evolutions how can you, how do you work with people to evolve a brand so that they're not entirely starting from scratch, they are building on that existing brand equity, maybe when they started out, they just did it themselves and they're realizing they want to step it up and work with an actual designer and you don't want to just, ruin every, trash everything they've done before and start from scratch.

  What are some things to keep in mind when evolving a brand?

  Amy Walters: So I define this as a brand refresh as opposed to a redesign because I think redesign makes it sound like you are starting from scratch, whereas a refresh is bringing in some new feel to what is already there. I think it's important always to consider what people already know you as and see you as.

  And so when I work with clients in a brand refresh kind of way We'll look first at what they've got already We'll look at why we've got those things already if there is a reason And then we'll look at what it is that their target audience or their current clients know them for and that will help us to know what to keep and what to change And then when it comes to evolving that Often, if there isn't meaning, definitely if there isn't meaning behind those colours or the branding itself, we will add that meaning in, and that might come with a few colour changes or shades of colour changes.

  But it all comes from a place of meaning, and so it grows as the kind of personal brand has grown.

  And building out your network and changing things, then we can look at how the design can evolve to match that and have that same passion and meaning behind it.

  So there'll be some things that perhaps an icon will stay, but the way the icon looks will be updated or we'll change the icon altogether, but we'll keep the style of font. I worked with a client who had a kind of Korean calligraphy style of font because of where he grew up and because of what his kind of business name was it made sense that we kept that But instead of keeping there's a very limited number of korean calligraphy fonts available, what we then did was make him one.

  So I designed one from scratch that kind of was reflective of that style. And then he had a very updated, more modern looking, clean looking font for his logo. But he looked the same to somebody who had seen him before or worked with him before. They still knew that was him and his brand.

  Christine Gritmon: Ah, I love all of this, Amy. I could geek out on this forever with you. For anyone else who would like to geek out with you, Amy, please tell the good folks at home where they can find you, why they should find you and what they will find there.

  Amy Walters: So I am mostly active on LinkedIn, so I'd recommend finding me on there. I am Amy Walters, and if you type in bloom creative that might help you find me there too. I'm the purple one if you hadn't already guessed from the discussion we had. If you want to find me on Instagram, it's at bloom.creative.uk. And then my website is bloom-creative.co.Uk. And what you'll find there is more of this kind of chat. Looking into tips and stuff around design and branding. A little bit of AI now too. And you can sign up to email newsletters and stuff if you would like to get even more.

  Christine Gritmon: Beautiful. Thank you so much, Amy. It has been a pleasure.

  Amy Walters: Thank you for having me.

  Christine Gritmon: And thank you for listening to Let's Talk About Brand. Whether you are listening to us on your podcast player of choice, or if you're watching the video podcast, hi, over on YouTube. Either way, please do subscribe, please leave a review if you liked it, and please do come back next week when I'll be here talking to another smart guest expert about a different element of personal branding.

  Bye!

S4 Ep04: Let's Talk About Social Selling

How do you feel about selling in your business? If the very thought makes you feel ‘ick’, then you are not alone.

But what if there was another way to sell in your business? One that was more personal and made the sale easier? What if, by building a strong personal brand, you could make more sales in your business? Would that make selling easier? Then tune into to today’s episode as I talk to my friend Tim Hughes all about the power of social selling, which is rooted in your ability to have a strong personal brand.

Tim talks to us about how people are buying from people which means that ultimately they are buying from people that they know, like, and trust (shout out to Bob Berg). So it’s our goal to show the world that we are not just another salesperson and we are going to do that by leveraging social media. And Tim will give us some ideas on how we can do just that.

Tune in as we explore: 

[00:00] Welcome Tim Hughes

[03:31] What is the problem with the approach that most people make with sales today? And how can that be solved?

[07:12] What should your personal brand (on social media) look like? How does having a personal brand work with or replace a buyer’s need to search for information? Why do we trust people’s opinions over research (in some cases)?

[15:49] People want an experience that is rent-free. Meaning that they want to connect with you, but not end up in a funnel or a sales cycle. So how can companies position their salespeople in a way that their customers go to them and not directly to the company?

[21:32] What kind of content should you be using to create a strong personal brand primed for social selling?

[26:55] How can companies create programs that encourage the development of personal brands?

[29:02] What are Tim’s thoughts about using email lists? And how can you protect your brand from the constant changes in social media platforms?

[34:20] Can this approach be scalable? And should it be?

Contact Tim Hughes:
Website: DLA Ignite
Linkedin: Timothy Hughes
Book: Social Selling Techniques to Influence Buyers and Changemakers

S4 Ep03: Let's Talk About Branding with Books

Have you ever wanted to write a book?

This week’s episode has the goods on personal branding and book publishing.

If you've been considering writing a book as part of your overall personal brand strategy, what do you need to consider? Why would you do that? Why wouldn't you do that? How can you make sure that this book that you're going to put all sorts of time, energy, effort, and thought into, is actually going to be something that helps your career in the way that you want it to?

Mindy Gibbins-Klein, a.k.a. The Book Midwife, has helped hundreds of people get their books out of their heads and onto the page⏤and ideally, into the hands of people who can benefit from those books and from those ideas. Mindy is the author of "The Thoughtful Leader," and that title really sums up the various work that she does⏤not only in book coaching, but in leadership consulting as well.

Tune in as we chat about:
[01:42] Is publishing easier or harder these days?
[06:18] Where should people be personally or professionally before they decide to write a book, especially as it relates to a personal brand?
[08:59] Is there a good (or bad) reason to write a book? What should your motivators be?
[10:39] What are some ways that writing a book can be part of an overall personal branding strategy?
[16:51] What commonalities are seen in books that are well leveraged within personal brands?
[28:18] How did writing a book impact Mindy’s own career?
[33:37] What are some things you should consider before starting to write your book?

Contact Mindy Gibbins-Klein:
Book Midwife
MindyGK

S4 Ep02: Let's Talk About Branding and AI with Chris Carr

One thing I love about this show that happens to me frequently is that the interview essentially turns into a private consulting session for me (that’s how good the information is!)

So today’s topic I have avoided as long as I could and it is now at the point where I can’t ignore it anymore (especially as the social platforms are starting to incorporate it to). 

Today I am talking with Chris Carr about the impact of Artificial Intelligence and Branding. Chris is a rising thought leader specifically in AI and is the co-founder and head of Farotek, a digital marketing agency that really has leveraged AI and AI's impact on SEO. 

Today we are diving into AI and branding. I'm big on personal branding, but as we discussed today, when it comes to AI, you get out what you put in. We talk about how you can use AI as a partner and as a tool that does not replace the human side. We're also going to get into some big issues right now with the fast growth of AI regarding what content can be used to train the AI, how thought leaders can approach it, and how it changes the rules of the game when it comes to SEO.

Let’s dive in!

Tune in as we talk about:

[03:29] How is Artificial Intelligence (AI) defined?
[05:18] Can AI be trained to sound like you and your brand? What is the best way to train it? Is AI a utility for my brand? Chris tells us what chat priming is and the right and wrong ways to do it.[11:36] How do you use the AI to know more about your audience?
[13:21] We all know that the information found on the internet is not reliable. So what information is being fed into these AI tools to teach them? Can we rely on it?
[17:34] Can we protect our thought leadership from feeding the AI and eventually from informing our competition?
[20:49] How is AI impacting SEO performance on content creation?
[23:08] Chatbots are a rudimentary AI. Some things that Chris has seen would blow your mind![25:31] Will AI replace humans?
[27:07] What are three ways brands can get started using AI to help them with their branding efforts?

Connect with Chris Carr:

Company: Farotech
Podcast: Digital Marketing Masterclass Podcast

Resources Mentioned in the Episode:
Spark Toro
Buzz Sumo
BARD by Google
ChatGPT
Claude.ai
Pie
Paul Rotor - Marketing AI Institute
Let's Talk About Brand Episode with Andy Crestedina

S4 Ep01: Let's Talk About Becoming The Brand with Jack Appleby

Welcome to the Season 4 premiere of Let’s Talk About Brand! 

I’ve been talking to today’s guest for a couple of years now about coming on the program–and I have to say, it's a much more interesting story now than it would have been when we first started talking about having him on. He has done so much more with his personal brand! We can’t wait to share with you the lessons he’s learned along the way.

If you are part of #MarketingTwitter, you definitely know his name. And I, for one, happen to love how he shows up with a point of view that he can back up with experience.

I am excited to welcome Jack Appleby!

Tune in as we talk about:

[00:00] Introductions
[01:43] Welcome Jack Appleby!
[04:41] When working to build a personal brand, an important thing to remember is that you want to freely share your insights to build a community that will help you establish a strong personal brand.
[06:21]  How did Jack develop from a horribly socially anxious kid to leading a community of followers who feel connected to him?
[08:48] What was the moment when Jack realized what he was building could create bigger opportunities for himself (and the companies he worked for)?
[15:02] Jack never started out to be a content creator, when was he ready to take the leap and become one?
[17:22] How did Jack have the confidence to take over Future Social from Morning Brew?
[23:23] The internet can be a terrible place, so how does Jack prevent it from holding him back? What advice does he have for younger marketers who are starting to build their brands on social media?
[25:59] Jack Appleby: Basketball star?? What lessons has Jack brought with him to build a completely different kind of audience?
[34:13] What three things does Jack recommend you do to grow your LinkedIn community?

Connect with Jack Appleby:

Twitter:  Jack Appleby
Newsletter: Future Social

S3 Ep42: Let's Talk About Brand Season Finale with Pat Flynn

It’s the season 3 finale of Let’s Talk About Brand, we have a very special guest, Pat Flynn from Smart Passive Income. Pat is a perfect example, not only of a strong personal brand but also as someone who has parlayed that personal brand into a company, SPI Media. Then entered a new endeavor with his building of a community all around Pokémon of all things seemingly not connected to his previous work, but as you'll hear, there are connections indeed. I am really excited for today's show. You're going to hear a lot about Pat's own journey and a lot of really actionable lessons that you can use as well in building your brand, building your business, and building your community.

Pat Flynn is a successful entrepreneur. He believes that passive income is achievable through upfront work and strategic automation. Pat has a diverse portfolio of passive income sources, including books, online courses, workshops, and YouTube channel revenue.

Tune in as we talk about:
[00:00] Introductions
[02:21] Let’s clarify this, what is passive income (and what is it not)?
[04:00] Learn more about some of Pat’s income streams
[06:45] What was Pat Flynn’s first entrepreneurial venture?
[10:26] How did Pat start to build his personal brand?
[14:47] How did Pat move his personal brand into a company brand?
[21:46] Pat tells us about the development of Deep Pocket Monster.
[19:00] What does Kimmy look for in the brands that she wants to invest in?
[22:01] We talk about why Kimmy started her own skincare line rather than invest in one and what the experience of launching a new brand was like.
[28:22] Kimmy gives three pieces of advice to someone looking to build a new brand.

Connect with Pat Flynn:

Website: https://www.smartpassiveincome.com/
Newsletter: https://www.smartpassiveincome.com/#unstuck

S3 Ep41: Let's Talk About Branding with from Within with Kimmy Scotti

Regardless of which type of brand you are building, you are ultimately building a brand to resonate with people. Understanding those people and what will resonate with them is a hugely important part of branding. And today's guest, Kimmy Scotti has built brands from her own personal interests and as an investor in other people's brands.

Today we're gonna talk about what goes into brand building, what you really need to know if you're going to be building a brand, what the important elements of her brand are, and what she looks for as an investor.

Today’s guest is Kimmy Scotti. She is the co-founder of Fig.1, serial entrepreneur and venture capitalist, is a self-ascribed skincare obsessive. She is also a founding partner at 8VC where she focuses on consumer and healthcare investments.

Tune in as we talk about:

[00:00] Introductions
[03:34] On a personal level, what are some brands that were part of Kimmy’s earliest experiences with brand affinity?
[05:43] Kimmy tells us about the accidental way she started her jewelry business at the age of 15.
[10:01] How did Kimmy become an investor and start 8VC?
[14:23] When you are highly creative how do you learn when to step in or stay out of a brand you are investing in?
[16:21] How does Kimmy advise on brands that are not in her area of expertise?
[19:00] What does Kimmy look for in the brands that she wants to invest in?
[22:01] We talk about why Kimmy started her own skincare line rather than invest in one and what the experience of launching a new brand was like.
[28:22] Kimmy gives three pieces of advice to someone looking to build a new brand.

Connect with Kimmy Scotti:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kimmyscotti/
Website: https://fig-1.co/

S3 Ep40: Let's Talk About Branding with Consciousness with Jonathan Trimble

In this episode I am speaking with Jonathan Trimble, founder of And Rising, to discuss the topic of conscious brands. Jonathan shares insights from And Rising's work in the consciousness space, ensuring both positive impact and founder well-being. We delve into the importance of a brand's consciousness and how it relates to consumer self-identity. The conversation highlights the shift in brand storytelling, with an increased focus on product origins and sustainability. We also discuss the focus that brands must have on putting functionality first for eco-friendly products and the need to offer superior alternatives. Jonathan emphasizes the importance of providing opportunities for consumers to engage with brands beyond purchasing products. He also shares his hope for a future where regenerative business models dominate. The episode wraps up by talking about the challenges faced by founders in maintaining their well-being and balancing their mission with self-care and how And Rising is helping. 

Today’s guest is Jonathan Trimble. As the founder of And Rising he promotes companies that prioritize sustainability and eco-friendliness. He is drawn to businesses providing alternatives that are more regenerative and environmentally conscious compared to existing options. Additionally, he seeks to support startup founders well-being to help them create stronger companies. 

Tune in as we talk about:

[00:00] Introductions
[02:49] Jonathan tells us about what And Rising is all about and what conscious branding and conscious companies mean to them.
[07:09]  How do brands drive consumption of their products while also framing it as something that will actually is making a perceptible difference in the world?
[10:15] How does And Rising make sure that the brands they are working with aren't just talking the talk, but are actually walking the walk of consciousness as a brand?
[15:08] How much of the operational details should be shared with the consumer when marketing and branding a conscious brand?
[19:28] How do companies make sure they don't niche down too far into only the most hardcore consumers with their messaging?
[20:36] What are some ways that brands can get consumers engaged that don’t include purchasing?
[25:51] How do founders of conscious brands differ from ordinary founders?[29:19] How does And Rising work with founders to make sure that they're not just making the world a better place, but that they're able to be in a good place in the world as well?

Connect with Jonathan Trimble:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trimblejonathan/
Website: https://andrising.com/

S3 Ep39: Let's Talk About Branding with Action with Tamsen Webster

It's one thing for you to tell people what your brand is, who you are, what you're about, but it's another thing to show it. And showing it is really what people actually care about. Because let’s face it consumers have pretty sensitive bullshit detector in this stage of capitalism, shall we say. So it's more important than ever for brands to make sure that they are walking the talk and not just using it as a branding tool.

Today we are having a fantastic conversation about how your brand's core beliefs drive the behaviors that in turn drive your brand. 

Today’s guest is Tamsen Webster. Tamsen is part keynote speaker, part message strategist -- and all about building big ideas. She has combined 20 years in marketing, 13 years as a Weight Watchers leader, and four years as a TEDx Executive Producer into a simple way to change how people see, and what they do as a result.

Tune in as we talk about:

[03:12] What is a brand?
[04:29]  What are some of those actions that companies take that give people these experiences that inform the brand impression?
[07:31] Are we expecting too much of brands today? Especially as we seem to anthropomorphize them so much more.
[17:16] How do brands really speak to their audience without it feeling like they are trying to hard to “fit in” with them?
[22:36] How can companies make sure that the actions they are taking to create their brand and impression are actually going to create that impression that they hope for?
[34:08]  In conclusion, what question does Tamsen’s personal brand answer? How does it answer it? And what are your beliefs that drive what behaviors that drive what brand?

Connect with Tamsen Webster here:

Website: Tamsen Webster

S3 Ep38: Let's Talk About Branding with Influencers with Yash Chavan

Today is all about branding with influencers. If used properly, influencer marketing can be an incredible tool to help build your brand. Or if you want to be an influencer, it can be an incredible part of your personal brand. But whether you are the influencer creator or you're the consumer brand who is working with them, you have to be really, really careful to make sure that that influencer marketing partnership is going to build both brands in the right way. 

Today’s guest is Yash Chavan, the founder of SARAL: The Best Influencer Marketing Tool on the Planet right now.

Tune in as we talk about:

[00:00] Introductions
[02:48] How do you define an influencer?
[04:08] How can you tell if somebody has influence if its not about follower count?
[05:48] What are the similarities and differences between having a personal brand and having influence?
[07:32] What are some things to consider when deciding what will bring value to your audience? 
[10:06] If you have a brand that has an engaged audience but not a buying audience, what should those brands look at to change that?
[13:05] What are some things that a creator brand should evaluate before deciding whether or not to work with a particular consumer brand, especially when it comes to brand fit?
[15:25] So what are some things that a brand should look at to make sure that the influencer that they’re approaching is a good fit for the brand?
[19:33] Is it better to work with an influencer that has an audience that fits your consumer or to reach out to an influencer who has an audience that is similar but might not be a perfect fit?
[22:50] What are your thoughts about companies developing their own influencers?
[24:54] A summary of the six-step influencer framework. 

Connect with Yash Chavan here:

Website: SARAL

S3 Ep37: Let's Talk About Brand Conversation with Brooke Sellas

This week's conversation about brand conversations was a really, really great conversation. Our guest, Brooke Sellas, literally wrote the book on brand conversations, and this is such an important part of both customer care and brand impression.

We talked about different ways that those conversations can take place, whether it is in public, on social media, on dark social, or one-on-one. We talk about the team that you should have in place and how you should prepare them to make sure that those conversations put the best foot possible forward for your brand, and we delved into emerging technologies such as Chat and AI when it comes to customer conversations.  

You won’t want to miss this conversation about conversations.

Today’s guest is Brooke B. Sellas. She is the founder and CEO of B Squared Media LLC, which is a social-first marketing agency that has a special focus on customer care. She is also the author of the book Conversations That Connect.

Tune in as we talk about:

[00:00] Introductions
[02:40] How did conversations become the focus?
[05:47] Should the social media team be separate from the customer care team and even the sales team?
[07:39] What are the different types of conversation that happen with brands on social?
[11:51] Is social media a sales channel or a branding channel?
[13:59] Should social media managers be trained in sales or should companies have sales teams that step into social conversations?
[18:30] What are Brooke’s feelings about the use of chatbots and AI in brand conversations?
[22:45] When should brands step into conversations found through social listening?
[24:57] In Brooke’s opinion where should conversations take place on dark social or in public?
[26:39] What are some of the common things that brands are missing and what should they be taking advantage of in conversations?

Connect with Brook Sellas here:

Website: B Squared Media 
Book: Conversations that Connect
Workbook: Social Listening Guide
Podcast: The CX Engine Show
Podcast: The Marketing Agency Show

S3 Ep36: Let's Talk About Branding and Culture with Dr. Marcus Collins

Do you know what Beyonce, Jesus Christ, and Patagonia have in common? 

They all have brands that have shaped the culture that surrounds them. 

In today’s branding conversation, I am talking to Dr. Marcus Collins. We talk about what your brand needs to do if you want to fit into a certain cultural framework, and especially if you want to smash it and really forge your own path within the culture.

Today’s guest is Dr. Marcus Collins, he studies cultural contagion and meaning-making to help bridge the academic-practitioner gap for marketers who aim to put ideas in the world that inspire people to take action. 

Tune in as we talk about:

[00:00] Introductions
[02:41] How do we define culture?
[05:05] How do the disciplines of sociology, anthropology, and psychology bring context and insight to a marketer?
[09:31] How can brands balance taking cultural context into consideration but also stand out in the market?
[14:29] How can brands let go of trying to get the cultural context right for everyone and focus on those that their message is for?
[21:29] What are some key factors that enable a brand to transcend and almost become a culture unto itself?
[21:21] What is social contagion? How can brands learn for it to leverage its influence?

Connect with Dr. Marcus Collins here:

Website: MarcToTheC
Book: For the Culture
Find on socials @Marctothec

S3 Ep35: Let's Talk About Empowered Branding with Tigz Rice

Is there a connection between boudoir photography and branding photography? You bet there is!

They both require you to be both vulnerable and confident enough to show up in your own way!

Stepping into the spotlight of your own personal brand can be a very empowering activity, and it really does involve empowering yourself with a certain amount of fearlessness to show up as your true self, to bring your personality into it and to just really say here’s who I am, here’s what I stand for and what I am all about.

But how does that empowerment come across in your brand photography? Tune in to find out.

Today’s guest is Tigz Rice, a UK-based Empowering Portrait Photographer, who helps fearless humans re/connect with their bodies & feel empowered, confident & unapologetically present in both their personal and professional adventures. 

Tune in as we talk about:

[03:03] How did Tigz become an empowerment photographer?
[06:16] People tend to have mental blocks when it comes to showing up as our true selves, how can a photographer work with you through that? Or does the work need to be done first? 
[08:23] What is it about capturing our image that freaks people out so much?
[09:26] How a photograph express the why as a person or their business?
[11:39] What is the difference between a headshot and a branding photo?
[13:07] How should you prepare for a branding shoot?
[15:40] What is a lifestyle shoot and why should you have one for your personal brand?
[19:37] How is the act of showing up in a different way for our brand photography, empowering?
[21:09] How can you use the images from a branding shoot?
[23:26] What are ways that you can bring personal elements into a branding shoot that won’t muddy your message?
[21:09] How can you use the images from a branding shoot?
[31:28] What is one tip that you would give people to help them through that process and get a little closer to being able to show up in that way?

Connect with Tigz here:

Website: Tigz Rice (you will find all her socials here)

S3 Ep34: Let's Talk About Branding and Persuasion with Jason Harris

Is your brand persuasive? What does that even look like? Do you know what elements your brand needs to have to be persuasive? If you’re not sure then you’re in the right place. Today we’re talking about what persuasion is, what it means, and what branding has to do with your ability to persuade.

Today’s guest is Jason Harris, author of the book, the Soulful Art of Persuasion, host of the podcast Soul & Science, and CEO of Mekanism

Tune in as we talk about:

[00:00] Introductions
[02:56] Jason defines for us what persuasion is. 
[05:21] The art of persuasion has changed over the years. What does it look like now?
[06:52] People hate ads but love brands. What does that mean for you and your brand?
[10:18] How is your brand’s soul connected to persuasion and branding?
[14:08] How can you communicate to buyers that your brand is tied to a purpose and not just looking to make more money?
[18:00] How do you take your company from being one that has a soul and a purpose to make that a brand that people can truly connect with?
[22:09] What does your brand need to be persuasive?
[23:58] If your brand is failing to catch, do you know where to look?
[27:08] Jason and I both define brand.

Connect with Jason here:

Website: Mekanism
Podcast: Soul and Science
Book: The Soulful Art of Persuasion

S3 Ep33: Let's Talk About Branding Your Offer with Janine Coombes

Presumably, your brand is supporting an actual business, and that business has offerings, whether it be products or services. But what are those offerings? How do you make sure that they are supporting your brand? And how do you make sure that your brand is supporting them? How do you put together an offer that gets you where you need to go? How do you make sure it is an offer that you can actually sell?

Today we're gonna be talking with sales and marketing coach Janine Coombes, who specializes in offerings.

Tune in as we talk about:

[00:00] Introductions
[2:23] How Janine got started with helping people define their offers.
[5:48] Why is it important to niche down?
[8:01] How do you find out more about your audience and what they really need?
[12:25] Let’s talk about pricing your offer!
[19:14] Once you have an offer, how do you make sure it sells?
[22:33] How do you put your brand into an offer so you can stand out from others offering the same thing?

Connect with Janine here:

LinkedIn
Website

S3 Ep32: Let's Talk About Building Your Brand Through Speaking with Bri Williams

On this episode of Chat About Brand, we dive into the world of speaking engagements as a means of building your brand. Our guest, Bri Williams, a speaker coach, shares valuable insights on how to know you are ready to take the stage and take it from something you do occasionally to actually building a sustainable business. 

We discuss the importance of having a signature talk, understanding your audience, and picking a topic you're passionate about. We also touch on the symbiotic relationship between speaking and branding, building relationships, and creating marketing assets such as headshots and bios. Join us as we explore the world of speaking and how it can help elevate your brand.

Bri Williams is a speaker coach. She works with professionals who are ready to leverage speaking to get to that next level in their career visibility. And she also works with entrepreneurs to build speaking businesses.

Listen in to learn:

[0:00] Introductions
[3:40] How did speaking become Bri’s business?
[5:49] How do you know you are ready for a speaking career?
[9:56] How do you focus your talk so you don’t overwhelm your audience?
[13:07] Why you should be marketing your business by speaking
[13:59] How do you focus your efforts to find your signature talk and turn speaking into your business?
[19:15] How do you make sure that the speaking you are doing is actually building your business (and not harming it)?
[23:18] What assets do you need to have in place to begin speaking?
[25:28] What are two things that people commonly struggle with when they start speaking?

Connect with Bri here:

LinkedIn
Website

S3 E31: Let's Talk About The Evolution of Brand Experience with Benoit Vatere

Today we are taking a nice little journey back through time to just before the turn of the century, late nineties web one, and what cutting-edge brands were doing with Web1 to get brand messaging out.

Then we shift to Web2 with the introduction of social media, mobile, phones, and smartphones. We talk about how that really shifted branding from being a read-only experience to one with more interaction. 

Then we talk about Web3, what it is, what it isn't, and especially how brands can utilize Web3 technology and real-life in-person tangible events to create experiences that really create a fuller experience of the brand.

Benoit Vatere is the CEO and founder of Mammoth Media, and he is absolutely at the cutting edge of new ways that brands are reaching their people and providing experiences both in the digital world and the physical world, and even somewhere in between.

Listen in as we talk about:

[2:33] How did brands leverage Web1? What was the mindset behind it and what did they hope to accomplish?
[7:50] How/When did the mindset shift from thinking of the web like a digital billboard to realizing that they could deliver a different experience to their customers?
[13:31] What were cutting-edge brands doing in early Web2 but before the rise of social media?
[16:17] How did branding and messaging change after the release of smartphones (especially the iPhone)?
[20:46] How were brands adopting the early phases of social media? 
[25:01] What is really exciting about Web3?
[29:36] What should brands not ignore as we move into the latest phase of brand experiences?

---

Find Benoit here:
Twitter
Mammoth Media

S3 E30: Leveraging PR for Brands with Gabie Kur

You can build the best brand in the world, but if nobody hears about it and nobody cares, you don't really have a brand. 

So today we're going to talk all about leveraging PR to get your brand out into the market. What does it mean? How can you do it? And we're going to talk about this across the gamut, whether we're talking B2B brands, B2C brands, or even personal brands. 

We will talk about different ways to get your brand messaging out there from traditional PR, how PR and marketing can work together and how brands can leverage events as PR opportunities.

I am talking with Gabie Kur, the senior VP of Code Word, a marketing agency that helps tech companies in both the B2B and B2C sectors get their name out there and build that brand recognition. 

So whether you're working with a B2B brand, a B2C brand, or just building your own personal brand, this episode is definitely going to tell you all about how to leverage PR in your marketing efforts. 

Listen in to learn:
[2:50] What does it mean when someone says “get your brand ‘out there’”?
[4:01] What is the role of PR? And how is it different from marketing?
[5:22] Who does a PR campaign focus on?
[7:11] What do brands need to have in place to take full advantage of a PR campaign?
[8:58] How can PR and marketing work together to promote your brand?
[11:22] What PR activities should you focus on (when even the PR expert hates press releases!)?
[13:25] Do influencers play into a PR campaign? 
[15:19] How can events be leveraged effectively to market your brand? 
[19:50] Should your brand consider events as part of their marketing?
[19:50] Are there any unique ways to market your brand that most companies are not leveraging at this time?
[23:28] How does storytelling factor into a PR campaign?
[25:17] What can B2B, B2C and personal brands learn from each other when it comes to leveraging PR?

S3 E29: Big Branding for Small Business with Erik Huberman

This week's topic we are talking about something especially near and dear to my heart, which is how small companies can build strong, amazing brands, just like the big guys while remembering that small can be a superpower. We are specifically focused on how small businesses can gain access to opportunities, tools, skills, and strategies that they may not otherwise be privy to or think of. 

I am talking to Erik Huberman CEO of Hawke Media, an agency that brings Fortune 500 company-style branding to companies of all shapes and sizes. 

Listen in to learn:

[2:13] What does Erik do to help companies with their marketing and branding?
[4:56] What is the relationship between company size and market trust? Is being small a superpower or a disadvantage?
[6:59] How can smaller brands gain trust if they don’t have a large budget?
[8:41] What are some ways that smaller businesses can get press opportunities?
[11:01] If getting press opportunities means that you need to stand out, how do brands figure out how they do that?
[12:09] What factors make a brand fun to work with at Hawke Media?
[13:47] What are some common factors that indicate that a company is primed for growth?
[15:47] When is the right time for a brand to outsource their marketing to an agency?
[17:16] Why is it better to hire an agency than to build an in-house marketing team?
[18:58] What other opportunities do big companies have access to that smaller companies might not have?
[21:58]What are some of the best ways that a brand can get ROI from social media?
[23:58] What can big brands and smaller brands learn from each other?
[25:41] What three things are most important when building a brand?

---

Find Erik here:
Twitter
Instagram
LinkedIn
Hawke Media

---

Our community #ChatAboutBrand Twitter chat discussion featured some great insights on Big Branding for Small Business as well!

I'd love to hear your responses to this week's questions (indicate which one you're responding to by beginning with A1, A2, etc.):

Q1. What is the relationship between company size and market trust? Is being small a superpower or a disadvantage?

My initial thought is 'size doesn't matter'. (God, it's hard to avoid all the jokes/innuendos.) You're putting out a quality product/service and always doing right by your customers, whether it's a local, niche market or a global market, trust will develop. - Dave Bednar

It's not either. I think larger companies may be held to higher standards, but they also have a bigger mktg budget and broader customer base. Smaller brands tend to be more scrappy but have stronger relationships with their ICA. It's a trade-off. - Kathryn McClatchy

I believe being small is a superpower! You build a community that supports your business and it supports you whenever you need it! This is why I do copywriting for small businesses. I can't even begin to describe how much I value them! - Claire Lawry

Q2. What opportunities do big companies have access to that smaller companies might not have?

Big companies prioritize mktg and see the value of building a consistent and aligned brand, and often have the budget to bring that in-house. That's an opportunity too many small companies don't yet see the need for, or think they can DIY it. - Kathryn McClatchy

They can pump in colossal amounts of money into R & D to be ahead of the curve. Likewise, they can afford to burn their money into Marketing. - Vignesh Venkatasubramanian

A plethora of consumer-generated content. - Joshua Grotheer

Q3. How can smaller brands gain trust if they don’t have a large budget?

My favorite word, authenticity. That and show your passion for the niche and the industry. - Bonnie Wilson

Small brands must focus on building relationships, providing stellar products/services & and customer service, and prioritizing building awareness and community. If they focus on community, the community will help spread awareness and trust. - Kathryn McClatchy

Make the most of what you got...YOU! Your passion, expertise and enthusiasm are invaluable. Engage with clients. Always follow up. Tout your successes. Share your knowledge. - Dave Bednar

Q4. What are some ways that smaller businesses can get press opportunities?

Press opportunities start local and small. Get involved with issues, projects, advocacy that are on-brand for your biz. As you build a local and TRUSTWORTHY rep, more opportunities for press in larger markets will open up. - Kathryn McClatchy

Back to relationships for this one! Networking and building meaningful connections, engaging in conversations in-person and online, sharing knowledge, and showing up as their most authentic selves are ways that smaller brands can get press opportunities. - Desiree' Slaughter

Engage and build networks. And always be on the lookout for those opportunities, so you can capitalize whenever you can! - Dave Bednar

Q5. What can big brands and smaller brands learn from each other?

The little brands can learn from the big brands successes and failures, as they level up. The big brands can look to the little guy to remember the basics and maybe what they forgot as they got big, and how to get the most out of what they do. - Dave Bednar

Big brands can learn to be more authentic and connect with people in genuine ways. Also, they can learn how to treat employees well. Small brands can learn brilliant marketing strategies. - Claire Lawry

Always remember there is something to learn from others! Learn - and then make it your own. - Kathryn Lang

Q6. What three things are most important when building a brand, regardless of size?

Be true to your values. If your brand and your values don’t align you will not be successful. - Ann Brennan

Brand building must have: Authentic vision; Authentic voice; Intentional action plan - Kathryn Lang

1. Knowing your purpose and audience; 2. Consistent and aligned branding; 3. Building awareness and community. - Kathryn McClatchy

Be clear and consistent about who you are, what you're offering, and why someone should come to you over someone else. - Dave Bednar

Q7. What are some big brands that are marketing like smaller brands? What factors create that impression?

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